1.2.0 Patch Notes

[NuclearBurrito]

Honestly Merc was something I didn’t know I wanted. However now that it exists I know exactly why I like it

[Hippolytus]

Yeah I really like the Merc change actually. I agree that having a neutral who just has to win with BD is not really neutral at all.

[Alice]

I’m not even sure why people kept insisting on pro-town neutrals in the first place.

The reason why anti-town neutrals work is to help scum who typically have a lower win-rate than town and also to add a lost wolf/traitor like element in the game as scum already knows who their faction members are. Town doesn’t have either of these issues as aside from their higher win-rate here they are also completely in the dark regarding their own allies. The previous iteration of the Mercenary was redundant as well since they were essentially an additional BD member in all but alignment, barring winning with a NK.

[orangeandblack5]

Okay the other huge reason Neutral Evils work (and there should be a minimum of one per game imo) is that it helps both the Unseen/Cult and the Neutral Killer simultaneously.

That’s big.

[Blizer]

@orangeandblack5

Okay the other huge reason Neutral Evils work (and there should be a minimum of one per game imo) is that it helps both the Unseen/Cult and the Neutral Killer simultaneously.

Looks at FoL Fool Agreed.

[bazingaboy]

I don’t even care if neutrals want to help BD, but they shouldn’t be risk free in doing so. Why do they have death immunity? Using pro - BD abilities like nightstalk or that investigative potion should remove your night immunity.

A true neutral should have to balance their decisions and not just openly claim, that’s ridiculous.

[slappy]

Yeah I just won a game as her (Sorc) and night before I won detonated my bomb on 5 or 6 people and watched them 1 by 1 all fall down. Me and Alch won. Was amazing

[livejamie]

Alchemist is pretty overpowered now

[Insanity]

Pretty much JOAT…

And it is more town sided.

[RHCube]

@Shrimpy

Some things that confuse me, for example, are why the Inquisitor-Sorcerer nemesis thing was completely removed instead of trying to fix it?

Because inquisitor was a broken concept. It is a hardcounter, and it’s not fun to play as or against. It also has an easy win con(they didn’t even have to do anything most of the time, and when they did win by themselves it was usually a yolo kill early on). And people believe that sorcerer needed a hardcounter because of its easy win condition(even though sorc did not)

@Shrimpy

Also why was Scorned changed so drastically? It had some minor problems like both targets dying N1, or an N1 frame on a Mystic always backfiring in Unseen games, but I didn’t know anyone wanted it completely reworked.

I agree with this. Fool and sorcerer were balanced, aside from a few minor changes.

@Lightsin

With scorned, all they needed to do was let me keep trollbox after I win, and I’d be perfectly ok. But I think they changed it since it’s the old “Your Exe” style, and dumb bd being confused.

Scorned shouldn’t keep TB after they win. I’ll sometimes claimed scorned as scum after an execution.

@Lightsin

And the fact that they side with BD. I think they should change it a bit, since it feels like another BD role.

Agreed, stalk should be replaced with mind warp.

@UncannyLuck

To be fair, it might’ve worked better if Sorc didn’t basically hard counter Inq. Inq’s only option was to stab randomly since their detection method was worthless. I’d have liked to them try the suggestion on the forum (make it easy for sorc to hide from BD but impossible to hide from Inq) but I also like this new stuff a lot.

Frames and tailors are the only “hard” counters that I’m ok with. Investigations would be overpowered if they were infallible. Their only weakness would be being hard to confirm.

@Hippolytus

I don’t really know why people were asking for more true neutral neuts tbh. Some neuts will always benefit one side, doesn’t mean they aren’t neutral.

Because they’re called neutral for a reason. And I find true neuts more fun to play as since you aren’t restricted to a single side.

@NuclearBurrito

For some of them it makes sense. Mercenary for example doesn’t HAVE to be as BD sided as it was (although it definitely could be). However Sorcerer and Fool are NE for a reason

NEs are fine, but there shouldn’t be BD-sided neuts(at least not like the old merc was).

@bazingaboy

I don’t even care if neutrals want to help BD, but they shouldn’t be risk free in doing so. Why do they have death immunity? Using pro - BD abilities like nightstalk or that investigative potion should remove your night immunity.

Investigative abilities aren’t always pro-BD. Alch is fine now, it would be too hard to survive without some self-survival ability.

[Temmeh]

so uh they buff a class that was already pretty fun and balanced (reaper) ok cool cool

then for sorc they listen to the community and make it good (sorc) ok cool cool

and for the class thats impossible to win with and that has the lowest win-rate they give a 3time use ability used for making someone vote someone

i know im underestimating this ability but poss will still prob be better due to pretender giving him a subtle buff when jumped into king and this ability but still im still scarred from my double poss experience from OhGodATourny

edit: this is probably a bad idea but how about if sorc and inq both spawn then sorc is one of the heathens guranteed? idk its not the best idea but sorc does seem kinda OP currently

[orangeandblack5]

@Temmeh

this is probably a bad idea but how about if sorc and inq both spawn then sorc is one of the heathens guranteed? idk its not the best idea but sorc does seem kinda OP currently

Sorry but yeah that is probably a bad idea

1: This has no effect on balance when there is no Inquisitor, and as such doesn’t truly nerf Sorcerer in anything but winrate.

2: As soon as people realize there is a Sorcerer, the Heathens are just going to out themselves and catch the Sorcerer immediately.

Not to mention we don’t actually know if it’s overpowered yet.

[Navi]

Thought I’d put these here since they address a lot of the issues people had with the patch:

1.2.0d Patch Notes

Alchemist

• Removed Coagulate and Stoneskin Potion
• Can now target themselves with Crimson Potion
• Truth Potion only discovers a player’s class if they are BD, otherwise it only shows their faction. MM will show up as Sheriff for first 3 nights.

This weakens the Alchemist’s longevity significantly, meaning they will need to rely more on forming alliances with the other factions and will end up being less useful to BD since their healing ability is now required to keep them alive as well. It also means that their death immunity can be bypassed more easily or blocked with occupation.

Assassin and Cult Leader

• Nightshade/Rupture day abilities reduced to 3 uses.

Reduced classes that can heal means poison/bleed becomes stronger. Makes sense with the Alchemist change. Will make early poison/bleeds much more wasteful.

Fool

• Poor Fellow only disable abilities of those who accused the Fool of treason.

Will make it so Fool can only block half the players, preventing the strategy of everyone executing effectively skipping a night.

Mercenary

• Starts with 2 brilders.
• Don Armor cost reduced to 1 brilder. Can now be used Day 1.

Less reliance on chance early is good. May have to increase the number of brilders required for the Mercenary to win, but I haven’t seen Mercenaries having a high win rate so far in the new patch.

Scorned

• Only immune to death once.

Somewhat prevents the strategy of the Scorned outing as a death immune investigator. The strategy may still prove too strong, but time will tell.

[orangeandblack5]

Holy shit the Alchemist change is what I wanted yay

As for the Scorned though I re-made this thread and I still stand by it

https://forum.imperium42.com/t/continue-tweaking-the-scorned/71918?u=orangeandblack5

[NuclearBurrito]

Alchemist

• Removed Coagulate and Stoneskin Potion
• Can now target themselves with Crimson Potion
• Truth Potion only discovers a player’s class if they are BD, otherwise it only shows their faction. MM will show up as Sheriff for first 3 nights.

For truth potion Nothing to say. It was a needed change and I have no issue.

With the Stoneskin removal I actually do have a (small) problem. However it is not the fact that it is a night ability which does indeed solve an important issue with alchemist.

Rather it negates the original purpose of Crimson Potion. The solution is simply to make stoneskin a separate night ability and re-add Coagulate. The overall intent behind the change however is fine and I wouldn’t be too mad if the change stays as is.

[orangeandblack5]

@NuclearBurrito

The solution is simply to make stoneskin a separate night ability and re-add Coagulate.

Wait what why

[NuclearBurrito]

Because then using the self protection ability is not taking uses from the healer support ability.

[NuclearBurrito]

Thus preserving it’s original purpose

[orangeandblack5]

Okay but why does it need to have both healing/support and self-protection seperately

I’ve previously suggested folding Stoneskin in like you suggest but if we just went this far I’d be much happier to stay here

[NuclearBurrito]

Like I said this is still an improvement over what we had before. It just feels like Alchemist is gradually losing his identity and I don’t want that