Alchemist Changes

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Currently, Alchemists are kind of a waste, always instant execution.

1 make them unique in game like hunter.
2 make them heal nightshade
3 make their heal limited use, maybe 3?
4 change night poison to 1 from 2
5 add ability to instant kill someone if you are being executed, like hunter’s ability except you can pick target.

Would solve main issue (alchs are insta exes) - threat of getting killed if you are the instigator + actually useful in unseen games.

Falsely claiming alch would be much higher risk-reward, compared to now.

#2

Alchemist have 28% win rate.

#3

Revenge kill would be sweet, yes its almost impossible to win as alch. Someone always finds you are neut or not ally and immediately hung. Even if you are helping BD they just don’t care.
28% is low, it should be like 50%.

#4

28% is fine for a Neutral that wins surviving. It’s just one player. it’s more than 1/4 chances.

1 Like
#5

There’s no good reason for Alchemist to be Uniqe.

There’s a reason Alchemist is unable to heal nightshade, it’s so it won’t be as strong as Physician, therefore not a neutral replacement for Phys.

These 2 changes alone are gonna make Alchemist even more useless and more of a waste.
Limiting their healing powers is not necessary. They already have limited healing abilites due to their inability to heal Nightshade.
No good reason to decrease their attacks either.

Then Alchemist would just be a new Fool then, but with killing possibilites.
So no…

And as Tryph said… Alchemist’s win rate is good. In my opinion, it’s one of the most well balanced classes in this game. No need for change.

#6

Why would ability to kill make it a fool class? The objective is to survive not to get executed. I’m trying to suggest how to get rid of the stupid “I’m alch” claims that get insta execution. Nobody thinks twice about executing an alch. With this change, people would kill them at night instead. Reapers and possessors wouldn’t die in a night kill…

Limiting # of heals counters the nightshade buff in their power. But makes class useless to BD after they’re spent. Harder to survive once you’re useless.

Very surprised at a 28% win rate. Has that changed over time? I’ve been playing for a couple weeks now and alch wins are extremely rare in games I’ve been in, so much so my friends and I all discussed it.

Do alch wins decrease as players gain experience? Would be interesting to know how class win % changes by experience. In matches with higher experienced players, do alchs have same win percentage? Is it artificially high because the game is ina growth phase and new players are artificially boosting it?

#7

Have you tried… not claiming alchemist?

2 Likes
#8

Have you tried… not claiming alchemist? And then getting outed as neutral? So what would you claim? Reaper? Merc (without someone to vouch for you?)? Possessor? Fool? Scorned? Most ALL neutrals are insta hangs. Or prince kills.__

2 Likes
#9

Alchemists who pull off successful heals are usually believed if they are still going endgame. Only tend to lose if nks or unseen are jerks

#10

i have better luck with alchemist if I am open and honest about it early game .
Say you are happy to work for blue dragon . make some allys and offer to heal people .
offer to kill people who are suspect fools and scorned to save the Prince .
then when it gets to a stage when there are less players use the word majority a lot and keep reminding people you are neutral and that bd need to try and get the unseen .
if there is a neutral killer still active mention because you are neutral that there is no point wasting a reap on you .
Then if you get the feeling that the unseen are majority remind everyone you are neutral and just want to stay alive and are happy to vote with unseen .
With alchemists its all about constantly reminding people why they shouldn’t execute you

#11

I was betrayed by a reaper when I became neutral king as Alche, I talked with them later and I understood why he did it. He was afraid I would betray him first. I understand why he did that

#12

I tend to win more games as Alche too if I claim early and side with the BD early, I always say I can prove it if they don’t believe me

#13

My issue isn’t playing as alch. My issue is how the current meta is to claim alch which leads to insta execution, either by prince or by trial.

#14

If you claim alch for no reason in one of my games imma murder yo ass. Don’t expect BD just to let someone live who will backstab them the second things go badly.

2 Likes
#15

but the alchemists will only turn on you when things go wrong if things go well f
you get an extra vote to lynch etc .

I have seen moron bd kill an alch when only 6 players are still alive because lol kill all neutrals . immediate game over for them as it lost 22nd majority vote .

If you are srill winning the alch will not turn on you . if you are losing as bd you have already lost .

#16

That’s dumb af to kill the alch with only 6 ppl left. Ideally he is long dead so you can focus on getting real scum but if he is alive at that point you just have to hope he sides with you.

Given the choice I’d rather not have to hope though, and known for certainty he won’t backstab us as he dead.

2 Likes
#17

So there are a couple of problems that compound on each other into the current state of alchemist

First is that BlueDragon has no reason to keep a neutral alive, most of the neutral classes are at worst actively killing BlueDragon targets, and at best maybe a BlueDragon unit gets healed of poison. Maybe.

The only real punishment for ruthlessly executing neutrals is that executing a fool buys killers more time, but execution via the prince bypasses altogether, so just let the prince do it.

Ideally you would have games in which it’s viable for the prince to claim neutral to avoid getting attacked by evil/neutral killers.

Second is that claiming to be an alchemist is a sort of “newbie trap”. Alchemist is a “harmless” role to claim for newer possessors, reapers, and unseen/cult alike which more often than not means that people whom claim alchemist not aware of the fact that that BlueDragon has no reason to keep neutrals alive.

It therefore, never reaches the second stage of mind-games in which only a fool would claim alchemist and everyone here knows not to claim alchemist so let’s not waste our 2-3 precious execution days on that guy.

2 Likes
#18

How do you prove it?

#19

I can confirm you can get screwed as Alche when I’m literally confirmed when I poisoned twice. I became nuet king and reaper fucked me

1 Like
#20

I can heal or poison on the kings target; usually the king will just confirm me to kill a suspect or heal his fellow bd and whisper if did or not