If the BD king doesn’t have investigative abilities, why would the get hung for not providing info? You wouldn’t hang a knight for not having and leads, or a physician for not having any leads. If they DO have leads, then you’d be more likely to hang them, since the only way the BD king would have these results is from someone else.
The only reason he gets hung so easily is because everyone knows he has leads. Removing it would lengthen their lifespan, not shorten it.
It still doesn’t change what I consider the key flaw though… There’s only a 33% chance the starting king is good. When there’s like an 80% chance a noble blood is good on day 3. There’s almost no good reason not to just kill the starting king by default.
except their is also a chance, especially with cult, of getting rid of good king and getting evil king.
Even if original was evil, the new one would be a better evil because they know who their allies are
At the moment, neutral kings always side with BD at the start, so it’s 66% chance of getting a very helpful king. Evil king atm has to out their own allies or get hung, making it even an advantage for an evil king.
If you’re talking about how it is right now, only the first king gets the investigative abilities, every king after doesn’t, so you’ll want to keep it around. In it’s place, the king can get some other ability which isn’t as potent as the current one, but still gives you a reason to keep the king.
That’s the meta right now because a good king has investigative abilities, and a neutral king needs to make it look like he’s good king to survive. If appearing like a good king involves not announcing your investigation results, that meta will flip on it’s head rather quickly.
What? So then you’re agreeing with me? Removing BD investigate abilities would solve that.
Do you replace it with anything? Also if you take it away from only BD king then neutral and evil also have no impact other them getting info and sitting on their hands waiting for somthing to happen, because if they come out with relevant info their exposed at their classes are opposite to BD. If your evil king then your only way out is to claim neutral king and prey they don’t string you out.
Any changes done to one type of king has to be done to the other 3 or it would be unbalanced for any of them. If there is a way for BD king to prove himself besides hanging baddies then then it’s overall bad for the game because the rest of BD would never have to guess.
I’ve already said, I don’t get how you aren’t seeing this! Obviously if Blue dragon doesn’t have investigation abilities, then no one would expect then to give info, so as Neutral and Evil you just don’t give out info. Instead you use it as it is, to find allies among the court, and then they can secretly work with them. At the moment it only benefits the Blue Dragon.
No clue what your logic is. King should prove themselves with the way they act, not by finding evils. It’s GOOD for the game , not bad. The current state King is in is awful and horrible for the game.
This. Kings would take on an always neutral role then games would inevitably get long as a result. The king is meant to be a power role and played as such. I’m not trying to argue points but taking away that power just stagnates the game.
I’m not denying the problem, but I’m pointing out the second problem that comes to light when you eliminate the public investigation callouts.
Mathmatically speaking, the starting king is a high risk for BD. He is far more likely to be non-BD than any random shot in the dark. Meanwhile the random royal bloods, are far more likely to be BD than any random shot in the dark. As they couldn’t have started non-bd, unseen/cult have only had 1-2 chances to convert by day 3, meaning it is unlikely they hit a royal blood, and even if they had, he’s probably going in an election against 1-3 BD royal bloods.
Right now the reason why we don’t universally kill the king ASAP, is simple, even if he’s evil or neutral. he’s likely to deliver usable intelligence for those first 4 days. If you replace him, you don’t have any investigations.
So the real issue is, what do we do to not encourage the BD to kill the king by default?
How about this. The starting king can use both of his day ability’s on the same day.
@Vandalay is spot on with all their points, IMO.
Taking away the BD’s King ability will encourage BD to hang the King ASAP as there is a low chance he started BD and he doesn’t have a useful invest ability anyway, whereas a Neutral or Evil King can gather allies with their invest ability and become an actual threat. The risk/reward of keeping a “I’m BD King I swear” claim is much too high for almost no reward.
We need to replace BD King’s ability with something that helps BD.
How about this: BD King’s guards now also prevent conversion as well as preventing death at night. Is that enough?
Before the game officially released, Kings could be hanged Day 2, and they WERE hanged Day 2.
Not at all, getting one confirmed Unseen eliminated because you can verify Sheriff’s claim and check as King give BD the benefit of the doubt that you are not evil king and Unseen will able to convert again and kill at the same time. The Sheriff will have no idea the king is subtly gaining Sheriff’s trust.
Losing two BD members in single night means a lot.
It’s not gamethrowing as long it’s not MM post night 3.
He’s kinda twisting what the dev’s have said on a different topic, they more or less implied if possible co-ordinate your bussing and get consent, and these things will be judged on a case by case basis with “you must get concent 100% of the time or you are game-throwing no exceptions”
Being the Evil King can definitely incur a lot of accidental gamethrowing reports. An evil team member with no night chat with their own allies, the Evil King will be “gamethrowing” a lot.
Their current rule system for bussing is not sustainable for the long term health of this game, and it is concerning to everyone.
Oh? Then I must have experience as Evil King.
I mean seriously, none of Unseen members won’t have to do the bussing thing and takes experienced player as Unseen/Cult to distinguish king’s true allegiance.
Sometimes they have taken the hint and will do the same later on and replace with one of their converted members which I am ok with that.
Or they kill me and let BD become next king.
Give the starting king something else which won’t be used for proof. Or they could give BD king a jester like ability. If the King is executed, but turns out to be blue dragon, X happens.
Some examples:
Royal blood line is useless, meaning that evils can easily take over the role
New kings can’t be voted again, so if they’re evil, the BD is in big trouble
The first voter for the king is forcibly executed the next day
At the moment the king doesn’t feel like a king, he doesn’t feel powerful, it feels like you’re at the mercy of everyone else, until you get an evil hung.
Okay your first idea has a lot of potential
Not so much for the other two, but I do like that first one
