Butler/Servant Rework

[Sam17z]

@NightX

Lead allows you to observe kills if you direct an Assassin to someone and they get killed.

False because the assasin could have attacked your second target causing more chaos and confusion if occupied they can’t attack anyone causing no confusion.

@NightX

The problem is that Debauch tops Serve Wine in every way. While occupation is useful, it is worse than debauch.

Yes but only because debauch redirects to himself and he gets immunity from the debauched person. Otherwise occupying is good, it stops assasins and reapers, and converted targets. I am not doubting that occupying could need a buff just I disapprove of this way.

@NightX

With this new main focus, Butler can differentiate himself from Drunk and be useful in a different way.

Really making them more similar, with both of them being redirectors rather than an occupier and a redirector.

@NightX

Also, redirection is almost always better for BD than occupation. If you occupy a Physician, you lose that heal. But if you redirect it, the heal can still be useful.

Not arguing this but this is proving my point that occupation is STRONGER in that it would do more damage to the BD and the scums rather than redirecting their targets to whoever. In a cult game, this would make catching invokers even harder because the invoker has the same ability as the butler and the drunk, instead of 2 uses of the butlers ability and 5 of the drunk considering hh = occupation

[psychoneirik]

While I do agree that debauch is superior to serve wine, I think it could be solved without too many changes. For example, changing debauch so it doesn’t tell you if your target is occ immune will make butler more unique since he will be the only BD that can find occupy immune classes, while drunk could still find attackers. Also I’ve said it a lot of times but I think Happy Hour and Concentrated Wine should be swapped.

[NuclearBurrito]

@psychoneirik

Also I’ve said it a lot of times but I think Happy Hour and Concentrated Wine should be swapped.

But party has a more Unique usage compared to HH making swapping them a Nerf for butler.

[Firekitten]

IDEA WE JUST GIVE BUTLER THE ABILITY TO REDIRECT TO HIMSELF. Then we give him happy hour, then we switch serve wine to the drunk. Give drunk party. Then give drunk a day ability to posion the king.

[NuclearBurrito]

Do we really need 2 classes that can poison King?

[Firekitten]

Oh sorry remove posion from butler

Fixed

[NuclearBurrito]

Ok. I don’t think it’s fair that the Royal is the one that can Party tho.

[Firekitten]

Oh ya…

Okay we take away Royal from drunk he was to drunk at a party so king removed him from any contact.
Then the king decided to bless the butler with royal blood

[NuclearBurrito]

Perfect.

[Firekitten]

Tbf I imagine a drunk throwing a party over a butler that

(Surprisingly get paid a lot)

Throws a party

[NuclearBurrito]

Not how that works. Party isn’t targetable.

[Firekitten]

Did I think of the wrong ability

[NuclearBurrito]

Yes.

[NightX]

@psychoneirik

While I do agree that debauch is superior to serve wine, I think it could be solved without too many changes. For example, changing debauch so it doesn’t tell you if your target is occ immune will make butler more unique since he will be the only BD that can find occupy immune classes, while drunk could still find attackers. Also I’ve said it a lot of times but I think Happy Hour and Concentrated Wine should be swapped.

It would still be weaker. If you try to reveal results on that, you could out Prince.

Also debauch inherently makes the power still take effect, just on someone else. Would you rather redirect or occupy a Physician? At least debauch BD still gets the heal. Occupation is just inherently weaker.

[NightX]

@Sam17z

False because the assasin could have attacked your second target causing more chaos and confusion if occupied they can’t attack anyone causing no confusion.

So? It shouldn’t have perfect accuracy.

@Sam17z

Yes but only because debauch redirects to himself and he gets immunity from the debauched person. Otherwise occupying is good, it stops assasins and reapers, and converted targets. I am not doubting that occupying could need a buff just I disapprove of this way.

Problem is that Drunk gets all the positive effects from the target, making it so investigators still get some info, Knights and Physician protect the Drunk, and so forth.

@Sam17z

Really making them more similar, with both of them being redirectors rather than an occupier and a redirector.

Better than one being a better version of the other.

@Sam17z

Not arguing this but this is proving my point that occupation is STRONGER in that it would do more damage to the BD and the scums rather than redirecting their targets to whoever. In a cult game, this would make catching invokers even harder because the invoker has the same ability as the butler and the drunk, instead of 2 uses of the butlers ability and 5 of the drunk considering hh = occupation

Even if it is strong, it becomes negative utility for BD. It can help, but Drunk just becomes much, much more useful in comparison.