Changes to Occupation

Feedback/Suggestions
#22

Every BD class is either trying to lead, get information or help someone else do those things until late game. Any class that cannot do any of those is wasting their time. Occupying/redirecting someone does not help you lead and it does not give you information. Knowing if someone is occupy immune however does.

Note: This is not true late game where you need to actually do something with that information you got from your ability’s and the claims of others. Once you hit a critical stage in the game ability’s such as Drunk HH and Butler occupying known targets and Noble using PP become more valuable for what they are. However giving the ability to work as a psudo invest gives them something to do in the mean time.

#23

For the record this is why the Knight, CW and old Noble are so boring.

#24

I personally disagree with this. Playing Town of Salem, most roles have no investigative powers, and are still engaging to play as. Not to mention Hunter, King, and Phys. I can’t say what makes CW and Knight boring, but I doubt it is the reason. All stages of the game you are trying to piece together the information of others.

Drunk would still be Pseudo Invest with this, since he would see if he was attacked.

#25

Also seeing patterns in who you occupy and the kills also provides some information, even if unreliable.

#26

THIS ISN’T TOS FOR CHRISTS SAKE

(filler)

1 Like
#27

The games are similar. Similar logic does apply. Also, I have put some examples in Throne of Lies specifically.

#28

You shouldn’t use other games to support an argument for another game. My “engaging” role experince in tos is 1.Click a button 2. click off of tab

2 Likes
#29

Investigating was one of 3 things. There are still the other 2.

Leader, Leader, Suporter

Then consider this. Every time when a Knight is confirmed and starts leading out in the open he carries the game and has a blast.

I know. I’m just saying that in the early game you need some information of your own in order to be useful. Late game is another story. You are always trying to get information I am just saying that early game you are ONLY trying to get information. Conversion means that any scum killed early on doesn’t really matter unless it is NK.

#30

Hunter is not leader, he’s a killer. Knight protects similar to Physician. In fact, he can also directly kill. I do get your point with King.

Not sure what you mean by this.

I do see your point here, but neither does Phys or Hunter.

Most of the time you don’t get early game information, even as Sheriff or Princess, at least not useful information. I don’t particularly enjoy Butler for the information, but I can’t really say why I enjoy it.

Still, my point is you don’t need to have investigative powers to enjoy the game. Even if Phys is support, it still has problem you mentioned with Knight and CW.

#31

Non-scum killers are necessarily leaders so long as they can kill BD. They would probably be punished for doing so but that isn’t the point.

Yea but the Physician does it better early game. The arguments I am making here don’t apply to late game.

Because he can’t kill BD he cannot use the kill as leverage. That’s why he fails where hunter does not.

As BD you should either A: Get information. B: Lead and coordinate others or C: Help others do A and B.

All information is useful. Just because you cannot accuse someone with it does not invalidate the information.

The only time when a check does not give information is when everyone would give the same results and everyone already knows that. EX: Princess when there is just a Prince, Hunter, Assassin and NK as well as possibly a Butler/Drunk. Or Sheriff when Unseen is completely gone and there is no scorned/fool.

Not really. Phys does support really well and can even lead somewhat if you know what you are doing. The other 2 can too but Phys is a bit better at it early on.

#32

Occupy immune classes-Butler,Drunk,Prince,Hunter,Scorned,Fool,Sorcerer,and Possessor.
That is 8 classes with a MAXIMUM of 10 people being occupy immune.(Though if that ever happens then you’re fucked as you would have 2 drunks,2 butlers,2 fools,a scorned,a prince,and a Sorcerer/Possessor.I don’t see the problem.So you want to buff butler and drunk.How does slightly nerfing prince help? They’re BD they want prince to be strong. If physician had a day ability to kill themselves and make prince immune to death for the whole game I guarantee you that physicians would push that ability D1 every single time.With your proposed change Drunk becomes unfun to play against as Nks would be outed immediately as the drunk would be attacked.Also with your proposed change them not being told that someone is occupy immune would be useless as you can only use it against other drunks,butlers,servants,and alcoholics.Also your argument that its fine doesn’t mean it couldn’t be better philosophy sucks.Like being converted last minute sucks but its part of the game.You asking to change the game’s mechanics for some reason and that reason being “it could be better.” Well no shit lots of things could be better. Cult could be better did you have change for that?Sorcerer could be changed to be more stealthy to BD do you have a change for that?Psychic could be changed to do more then 1 thing.Hunter could be changed to be a better killer.Knight could be changed to make it more provable.The game could have better graphics.All these could be better but instead you focus on the occupation mechanic.Some classes are just weaker then others that’s how the game is designed and to change that you would either have to change the game or change every single class to make it so that they’re all exactly the same power level.Also your ToS reference fails for 2 reasons.A-This isn’t ToS so the classes are different and B-Your comparing 2 games with VERY different game mechanics.The games are similar but not to the point where you can use it to support your argument.A-King is known throughout the court B-Conversion mechanic is a thing C-Most classes are more versatile in ToL D-You’re told exactly how everyone dies in ToS.

On a side note answer me this question because I’m not seeing it.How does this help drunk and butler meet their win condition in any way?What does this change ultimately effect?What interaction would change to help them meet their win condition?I can name 1-The NK interaction which really shouldn’t be needed as Nks are the hardest class to win.But with that change comes a load of other bad changes.A-You can make hunter wolf you.B-You can stop prince from exe.C-You can prevent hunter bear.D-You can prevented hunter wolf.

1 Like
#33

Actually he does. They added that recently.

Everything else you said is completely true.

#34

Really?Interesting…

#35

Cool I know.

#36

Argument still stands as invoker would either need to be the starting one or a Knight,Hunter,Drunk,or butler so the changes are still pretty useless.

1 Like
#37

I know. I agreed with your argument I just wanted to clear that up.

#38

Just gonna throw it out there that Invest-lite Butler is dumb and bad

If nothing else fix that

2 Likes
#39

I disagree. Invest lite butler/drunk is the reason to not sit there and do nothing early on.

#40

This isn’t meant to be a Butler or Drunk buff. Drunk power to see if his target attacks him is already in the game. When I mean better, I mean balance wise. Not buffing a class. Hunter can’t wolf since he’d be redirect immune, he’d be occupied instead.

This would help Sorcerer and Possessor since they’d otherwise show up as immune.

I mainly intended this for what Orange said. I doubt it would have a drastic change on the game, and would mainly affect Drunk/Butler and their converted forms.

Even if you want to keep all the classes as immune, it is the invest-lite Butler that bothers me. I feel the same logic applies to Drunk. It feels to me that it isn’t what that class is supposed to do.

Investigators are for learning about people. Butler and Drunk aren’t. Killers (except Prince) and Supports don’t investigate either. Why does Offensive?

#41

But that in and of itself isn’t optimal play. We shouldn’t be encouraging random occupation in this fashion.

1 Like