As opposed to nothing? That leads to boring play for that player. Balance isn’t the only thing to think about.
But do we really want to make everybody an Investigator for “fun”?
I thought we got rid of Allies for a reason.
2 Likes
We got rid of allies because king has 2 of the other 3 ways to make him fun already in effect. We don’t need to make everyone an investigator for fun but we do need to make everyone SOMETHING for fun at all stages at the game. ESPECIALLY early game where your action is all you have.
How does offensive not do 3? If they occupy converters or killers, they help with 1 and 2. Just like how CW guesses who would be converted, or if Phys guesses who will be attacked.
Emphasis mine; point incorrect.
The change to Allies was made because investigative King was an unnecessary crutch that was hampering the growth of player skill. People have been and continue to complain that without it there is less “fun”; but, fun being subjective, nobody is ever correct on this issue.
Even if we assume that playing a buffed Roleblocker with the abilities to both protect itself and poison the King is “not fun”, something I find impossible to believe, it makes more sense to give it another less destructive ability to make up the “fun” factor rather than let it act as a pseudo-investigator for no reason.
This change wouldn’t ruin how unique the game is. Conversion and the King are both pretty unique. Also, I may be a ToS player, but I am also a ToL player and want this game to be better.
1 Like
Disagree slightly.Butler’s and drunks investigate using logic.Everyone can do that.Scum reading and reading votes are part of the game.Hunter and knight can investigate somewhat as someone who is wolfed will claim most of the time and knight’s CS can investigate your faction albeit very badly.Supports can investigate on the logic of who is targeted.Also Burrito brings up a good point as there as to be a balance between fun and balance.Given most of the time the 2 go hand in hand but with a change like this I don’ know if it would make it really fun to play as.Now some classes are just less fun to play as.This varies from person to person so its hard to gauge.But lets move on to your argument.Sorcerer and Possessor would be immune which means they HAVE to claim butler/drunk as otherwise they would be lying and die.These classes are some of the worst classes to claim as an NK as no one would support your claim so you would have to have only dead people in your will.Other then that the invet-lite butler isnt a thing I personally have ever experienced so I;m guessing its when you use occupies and DBs to determine who is evil.I believe every class should do one of 2 things for BD.I just dont see why this is a problem as you can always just kill the drunk/butler and they aren’t always that impactful.
The point isn’t that he CAN’T do them (otherwise he would be useless late game too). The point is that he usually doesn’t and if he was balanced to do so (very possible, we did it with drunk once) then we would be dealing with a different class entirely.
You’re almost correct; the only issue is, every non-occupy instance of “this role kind of investigates” you gave relies on other players to act.
Occupation doesn’t, you just get told “immune!”
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I actually consider butler to be the worst BD class and the 2nd least fun in the game. CW is the least fun for me btw.
Hey. Tone it back. This forum is for meaningful discussion and theorycrafting. No reason to throw insults and refuse to discuss. They’re well within their right to suggest changes to the game.
5 Likes
Yeah, although I do feel Butler could use some love
This is just not the thing it needs.
