frost none of us forgive you for enemy within 1 i hope you realize :^)
I think Hippo would be an excellent NK primarily because heās super obvious town every time he rands V. The lack of TMI characteristic of NK could go a long way in making him look like town.
Public service announcement, or āVulgardās take on why town loses quite frequently.ā
Itās more simple than you think.
THE IMMENSE POSTCOUNTS OF OUR GAMES HERE ARE THE REASON WHY SCUM WINS MORE FREQUENTLY THAN TOWN DOES.
And hereās the explanation why. (Note: I use āvillagers/townā and āwolves/scumā interchangeably.)
Site meta is shaped by the more prominent players, and if everyone POSTS POSTS POSTS POSTS POSTS POSTS POSTS, then weāre always going to have 10k+ games where nobody will actually read everything and most people are just going to skim.
It was actually easier to read people and nail wolves when we had fewer posts in our games. Notice how the older mashes where town won (or came close to winning) were sub 10k (the whole game). Now we have at least 50% more than that on average. And wolves keep winning.
I really donāt think thatās a coincidence. It might really be that simple.
Notice how Mafia Academy was a complete town dunk because of post restrictions, except for lolneutralfruitvendor which was a mech misclear. And that was a relatively recent game in comparison to the old mashes.
Youād think that having less information is bad for town, but itās actually great. Back when we didnāt have games with inflated postcounts, we could use what we had and analyze it deeply. We had the time for it. And we correctly nailed wolf after wolf. Again. This is no coincidence.
Wolves benefit from high postcounts way more than town does. Wolves donāt have to actively look for information in the thread, because most of the time, they already have the information they need. All they are searching for are mechanical things, such as PR softs/claims, etc. Meanwhile, the villagers are almost completely uninformed, which means they need to read the thread more thoroughly.
How do you read a thread thoroughly when there are thousands upon thousands of posts and most of them are alignment indicative in some way? You just canāt. So villagers will skim. And villagers will lose, because they are overloaded with information and miss important things because of it. Scum can, and will, actively bloat the thread with nonsense to prevent town from finding them. Which is why, if youāre a villager, contributing to this is beyond silly.
I really think the postcount thing is the primary reason why villages get dunked on. You canāt possibly analyze everything, which is especially horrendous if the wolves are the ones fluffing the postcount.
Weāre bringing up things like āno re-evaluation,ā āmisclearing and forgetting,ā etc., but most of that happens because people canāt reasonably re-read the thread. Thereās no time for it, and even if some people do have the time, they donāt have the motivation.
If you have to re-read, village motivation is already sparse, because it most likely means that the wolves are on the cusp of winning. That the early reads and ātakesā were mostly misreads, and they have to be re-evaluated or the town will lose. Having a massive thread filled with hyperposting and repeated information just makes it even more difficult for the village and breaks their spirit completely, making them rely on whatās āin the momentā instead. Obviously, they canāt win like this, but the alternative (re-reading the whole thread) appears to be an impossible task and simply doesnāt happen.
You can tell someone to āre-evalā and they wonāt. Not because they donāt understand the value of it, but because the thread has over 10000 posts and you have to re-read the thread AND every single living player whoās still in the game. Thatās almost impossible. Mafia would have to be your full-time occupation for that to be possible.
And without re-evaluation, without looking at the game holistically, without the ability to comprehend the entire game at once and read people based on everything theyāve doneā¦ the village canāt win. Itās not easy to find wolves āin the moment,ā especially good wolves. You have to read people thoroughly. And, againā¦ you canāt be thorough when there is too much information in comparison to the time you have. Information overload is real.
And we can remove that overload. This is what town needs to win more frequently. The ability to do their work properly.
You may be an expert at mafia theory, you may know exactly how to read people and how to adapt to the gamestateā¦ but all that knowledge becomes meaningless when you canāt even gather information properly. Fluff, repeated information, shitposting, and more meaningless posts. You skim the thread because of it, and you miss what is alignment indicative. And you keep scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, praying to find observations which will help you sort people out. And you miss things along the way. Itās not your fault. Itās everyoneās fault.
And even if you do read everything, parsing through what you have read and trying to single out what mattersā¦ it takes plenty of effort, time, and motivation. You donāt always have those. The day phase has a limited length. Effort does not equate to efficiency, at least not always. And motivation can lower ā especially if you had to go through the trouble of filtering out hundreds of posts which mean nothing.
Hyperposting is bad for the game, and always has been. We have memed about it, we have joked about it, and we have ignored its impact. But Iām done ignoring it, and I hope you are as well. The high postcounts in our games actively favor scum, leading to a notable increase in scum wins in comparison to what used to be the case. I have evidence for it, which I have already mentioned.
Can you change this?
You absolutely can. I was a top poster for months (hundreds upon hundreds of posts) before I switched my attitude. Now Iām in the middle ground at most.
I can show you my game history to prove it. You can do this. You just have to realize that by hyperposting, you are making the game more difficult to play for the entire village.
Itās not an impossible task. Itās not even a difficult one. You just have to realize what the problems are and change your mindset. You may not want to do this, but if you want to improve the villageās winrate and make things easier for other villagers, you should. Itās far easier to analyze things properly when you donāt have hundreds and thousands of posts to read. Which is why the village wins more frequently then. Less is more.
Just think before posting. āDoes this contribute in any way?ā If it doesnāt, donāt post it.
Can you meme? Yes. On occasion.
Should you meme and post fluff? No. Especially not when you are town.
Stop posting. Start thinking. Thinking firstā¦ posting later.
If you scrolled through and you see this message, read my post in its entirety. Without skimming. Skimming is something we shouldnāt become accustomed to. The first step toward better villagingā¦ is to read my entire post here.
If you want our games to be more balanced, read the entire post and try to apply the lessons Iām attempting to teach. By reading the post, you are already making progress. Because you are not skimming. You are reading and thinking.
Vulgard out.
24 Likes
Thatās the last lesson I have learnt from this site I think and it was with Eevee in Mafia Academy
I tend to not hyper post anyway. Though Iām able to become one of the top posters without too much trouble.
Frankly here are my suggestions to combat this issue, and Iām going to use RM4 as an example for why hyperposting is bad being that I was a wolf there and the thread was nonsensically long the gameās size. This was a 16pāer that ended D3 and the thread ended with literally 15k posts and wolves absolutely dominated that game, so it should be the main case study for anti-town hyperposting on this site.
A) Stop memeāing and off-topic posting in general, leave it to the cookie thread. There were plenty of excerpts in the thread that went like this.
Summary
This was literally just twenty posts of Wazza/Marshal/Katze talking about sleeping, hand warmers, and cats and in general and it just pads the thread, makes it more unreadable, and demotivates villagers from re-reading as everything in those excerpts were off-topic time-wasters. This was only one short incident of this as there was plenty of off-topic discussion in the thread.
If youāre town and youāre creating conversations that are over a hundred posts long that have nothing to do with the game, then youāre harming your own team by pointlessly making the game harder to read. Plain and simple
B) Quit talking about mechanics unless itās strongly AI. Like, when I cleared the doc over mechanics in NUF it took less than 10 posts. I faked a track on the dude after rolecopping him as doc, he claimed he healed Hippo because he was his strongest TR, so the story fits in where heād only be a W if Hippo, who I was TRāing at the time, were W.
Repeatedly talking about claims without going anywhere with it such as repeatedly bringing up a playerās roleblocker claim without bothering to asses if they are a V or W roleblocker is futile and just further pads the thread. This is especially bad on this site as when people begin talking about mechanics all talk regarding reads simply just stops. Just see any FoL, the moment a single player claims everyone just shuts down regarding reads. As a wolf I love it when this happens as mech-talk is stupid easy to fake while reads thereās a higher sense of urgency being that it requires me to make harsher decisions. As town? Yeah, no.
C) Cut with speculation. If you donāt have evidence for your theories then donāt bother posting them in the thread. Like, this was especially bad with Braixen in RM4 being that he kept spitballing random wolfteams without any thought at all or in FoLs convert hunting early d2 in general.
If you canāt back up your theories with evidence then itās probably wrong and you shouldnāt really be spamming the thread with it.
Iād say this goes into flavor talk as well. Guessing the flavor of the wolfteam isnāt going to do anything regarding sorting out whoās a wolf and whoās a villager.
D) Unless you have a clear idea of what youāre planning to do with an RT, then donāt do it. In other words, donāt FPS just for the sake of FPSāing. I see way too many games where there are hundreds of posts where a player fakeclaims and then later rescinds and then doesnāt even bother to assess their targetās reaction by claiming it can come from either alignment. Stop hogging the thread unless you know your RT is going to be productive.
Additionally, stop pussy-footing around when people question you regarding your FPS. If you keep retracting, then rescinding the retraction, and so on it just causes confusion and steers the thread off-track. Like, in FE Derps should have just outed his n0 if Ob was in danger. Him claiming the n0, then never giving a straight answer on it was just a dumb distraction that clogged the thread without giving much information at all.
Also FFS stop RTāing players you TR or who are mechanically cleared. Itās literally why I told light to shut it in FE because reading a player who is mech-cleared is stupid being that heās mechanically a villager due to Derps and itād just be a waste of time to try to read him.
In short, if you want to RT, then you better make conclusions regarding their reaction otherwise the only thing that youāre doing is causing confusion and padding the thread.
17 Likes
Reaction test.
Basically stop faking red checks on people for no reason as from experience here people donāt bother to make any conclusion regarding the targetās reaction and it just degenerates the thread into speculating if the check is false or not.
7 Likes