[Class Suggestion] The Marquess

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

This is the Marquess. A Royal Neutral dedicated to helping his fellow Neutrals out, with not much interest in the conflict of Castle Adiart.

I was hoping for a Neutral class that could work together alongside Neutrals to build up a sort of teamwork and family-ship. And I thought that putting Snoop on a Social class like this, one that is Neutral and doesn’t care for Blue Dragon or Evil, rather than a mass amount of classes having it.

Changelog:
Removed Vassal COMPLETELY
Removed Merchant ALSO COMPLETELY
Removed Order from Marquess
Added Aegis ability
Added Neutral Audience
Removed Aegis
Removed Neutral Audience
Added Messenger

#2

What were to happen if possessor jumped to the king? Would the Vassal know or would he try to keep the possessor alive?

#3

Would still try to keep the possessor alive, as letting the Vassal know that Possessor jumped to the King would cause major problems.

#4

What’s the point of choosing players here?

This doesn’t really make sense, because to have a second King the first has to die. I’m not sure how to word this better though because it has to include “Don’t have any other King than the starting King die, but also try to prevent the starting King’s death”, if I correctly understood what this means.

This gives you incentive to drag out games with your occupies to get more gold. I get that it’s a theme, but it making it a mechanic that could lengthen games probably isn’t the right idea.

Same thing, but now other people have a reason for you to drag out the game too.

#5

Oh, I probably should’ve added,
"Choose two players, except for the King. Among the players chosen, any neutrals who are not in jail can freely talk amongst themselves tonight.

It’s like two Link Minds at once, but will only work for Neutrals. That way it won’t be broken to the point where having a Marquess can simply allow Neutrals to communicate from the very start.

Meant to make it like the Mercenary: The Vassal is, in a sense, contracted to the King and would have a chance to also be contracted to the second King, but while I thought that having a King die early would mean instant death for the Vassal, I guess it would make more sense to make it only one King, especially when most Kings I’ve seen tend to live to the end unless they appear blatantly Evil.

And I’ll change the Merchant’s theme with Gold so that it doesn’t matter how many times you occupy, but whether you win or not, so that the length of the game doesn’t affect it at all.

#6

I just wouldn’t do the gold thing. No point to it

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#7

Order makes sense with the goal from the Marquess, but simultaneously outs the fact that there is a Marquess and whoever the marquess is trying to help. Both royal blood and snoop give it great potential to fake a noble claim and I don’t know if that is intentional or you aim noble to be changed. It’s not a valid fake claim for evil neutrals, so it doesn’t open up the claimspace. That’s not a critique, but just making an observation.

I really don’t like the Vassal. I’ve had amazing hardships trying to dethrone evil kings as BD and I find it comically easy to stay alive as starting king already. Having a neutral empower the already strong starting king is not something that the game needs as of now in my opinion. See all the remove allies/remove decide fate topics that I personally disagree with however. Shieldbearer should have lower uses, since king already can guard himself 4 times. I’d prefer an investigative ability that sees if the person has the same faction as the king. (unlimited uses) That also makes it slightly fake claimable, but perhaps too strong, so maybe then the vassal needs to be convertable.

Merchant is too confirmable if it has happy hour for a survivor’s class. It can already easily fake a butler’s log in this incarnation. I think gold shouldn’t be an extra in game incentive if you complete specific objectives outside of your win condition, so Haggler should just be removed. If you strip it down there is not much uniquely added for a merchant. He has no way of ensuring the survival of the ones he occupies. Butler already tries to survive to the end as well, I don’t see how this would play that much differently. This version would just occupy as many players as people to hopefully have two of them live at the end, whereas normal butler actively tries to occupy evil. That is a simplification obviously, but still there is some truth to it.

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#8

You have a good point, and Vassal seems really unfun to play as, and Merchant doesn’t really have a goal to work towards. So, GONE are both

And I replaced Order with Aegis.

#9

It’s unclear to me if the Marquess wins as soon as one of the neutrals achieve their goal or he also has to survive until the end. He has zero survive-ability skills, so the latter is hard to achieve and the Marquess is probably better off rallying against the king, stepping up with royal blood and winning as neutral king, faking a noble/princess log. If it is the former however, the Marquess will usually win due to no action of their own. An early fool/scorned/inquisitor win, where the marquess has done nothing in particular. I suggest a contracting action is necessary, to solve that, similar to the mercenary that also allows you to fake claim as one, because as of now there is zero incentive for BD to keep the Marquess alive, so he’ll need to fakeclaim. No BD/scum would claim to him in messenger. This also gives you some risk/reward scenario, where you wouldn’t want to contract to the NK for instance, but if you only find him early, you must make the choice if you’d go for that or you’d rather wait until you find a scorned/fool.

Snoop is a very useful ability for a lot of things, except it is not particularly useful for finding fellow neutrals and helping them achieve their goal, since their logs are not a tell of their class. I am sorry if I’m shutting down a lot of your ideas, but it is not particularly easy to design a class that helps a faction with completely differing goals. As of now it is like a psychic for neutrals, except most of the neutrals cannot coordinate that well with each other or have little incentive to do so, as opposed to BD who have one unified goal.

#10

Hey man, my PC was dead for the last couple of weeks, but here I am now! Let’s do this.

Ok so, I like the idea you had behind this class. However, I feel like his kit doesn’t help him. Sure you can find all neutral by day 5. (Yes, I did the math and that’s the furthest you can go without finding ALL the Neutrals), but his whole kit just asks you “what then?”. You can keep in touch with them day and night with messenger and read someone’s log. I mean, honestly, I’d just quickly use my two uses of snoop to hasten my search for Neutrals and be over with it even faster. But as I asked… what then? Let me list the neutrals here and go through them.

  1. Alchemist - He has to survive the whole game and your only weapon to help him is using reason. Telling everyone that he is a confirmed Neutral and that you are the Marquess would be a way to go. But hey, he could claim alchemist and be the Neutral Killer. Why would anyone believe you? Sure you could Snoop and post his logs beforehand, but even then.
  2. NK - He also has to reach the end of the game alive. The best you can do is tell him who the other Neutrals are and try to dissuade people from investigating or accusing him.
  3. Mercenary - His two targets must be kept alive. You can’t really help much with that. He can easily prove himself without you.
  4. Scorned / Fool / Sorcerer - These classes couldn’t be included. Having a fool win with help is just the easiest thing. You can claim he is unseen and that you are sheriff, you both win, done. The same goes for Scorned and his targets. Sorcerer, on the other hand, would mean that two Neutrals are evil, no questions asked, so that’s a no.
  5. Inquisitor - Sure you could help him find the Sorcerer, but as a Sorcerer, would you trust a Marquess that could do that to win?

You see where I’m getting at here? If we consider the classes that I suggested to be out of range for the Marquess here, you’d get 2 classes left that you can kind of help but not much. Alchemists and NKs.

So, yeah, we could easily use a Neutral class that helps other Neutrals, but I don’t think the current idea of the Marquess does that job. I promise you I’ll try to think of solutions to that, in the meantime, tell me what you think of what I just said.

Feels good to be back, I missed you guys.

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#11

Nah, I don’t mind the criticism because we all need it. And the Marquess is simply that, a Neut that wants a faction other than BD or Evil to win. But I am going to say this: you can’t use Messenger on a BD or Evil because you can only use it on people you talked with, who are Neuts. I had a different idea, which would be to ensure that all Neuts achieve their goal, but it would be very difficult, and the Inq and Sorc situation would make them not count as True Neutrals.

And @Sheepish I know that most Neutrals don’t NEED the Marquess to win, but don’t you love that feeling when Neuts band together to get rid of BD and Scum? With the Marquess, the Neutrals can become more of a faction together, except they could easily betray one another for a majority side.

#12

I don’t know, man, I feel like we could do something better for a Neut Leader of some sort.