Don’t forgot about @insert another person
Nothing. Social abilitys always interact with the target in some way. The most effective way to make it not obvious is to disguise the interaction as something else. This method is exclusively used by scum.
Noble is social because of maid spy and vote manipulation. My own spy class is social because it removes feedback not because it gets information from the target.
Investigative gathers mechanical information.
Social does literally anything else with information. Unfortunately manipulating your own information is pointless, secretly manipulating someone’s information is negative utility, gathering non-mechanical information is confirmable and overtly manipulating information is also confirmable.
Besides that what are you left with? Voting because it’s not class spacific. And vote manipulation is covered by the Noble.
I wouldn’t say so, since the main power in Wandering Eyes is that it processes information from the day for you. In SFoL it’s not turbo so you could just do it yourself as any old class.
Yes. But don’t you love not reading and torturing the host?
No, no I don’t
Might have something to do with the fact that I’m sometimes the host
Guess we have different opinions then
I feel like that’s an overly narrow definition of Social that ends up impeding a BD Social class that isn’t easy to confirm or whose abilities only affect evils.
BD Social classes are allowed to gather information from others (Link/Maid Spy) and other classes are allowed abilities that don’t fit their role. Having a predominantly Social class with some information-gathering is in keeping with other class designs in the game.
If you fundamentally disagree with that and have no interest in helping me come up with alternative abilities, then there’s really nothing else to discuss, we’ve both made our points time and again and the discussion isn’t going anywhere.
Yea. Noble DOES have gossip. But that’s not license to not actually make the class predominantly social.
Neither whispers nor words in a mind link are mechanical information.
And nothing about what I said stops you from making a class that only effects evils. That’s not a helpful-social class so my argument against them is irrelevant.
At least 1 person will be able to back up your social ability. If that one person is always scum then it doesn’t prevent a fake claim. However your class is not that
Sorry, friend, you just made 4 posts and none of them were actually helpful, as you didn’t suggest alternatives, modifications, or tried to help me accomplish my goals. I understand your disagreements and I respect your viewpoint but I’m gonna keep carrying on doing my thing.
And what is your thing? Are you trying to make a claimable Investigative class or a social class? Make up your mind and stop pretending like what you have now is social because it’s not. Something has to give.
It’s intended to be a fakeclaimable Social class with some investigative abilities that enhance social deduction. For the third time: if you think the abilities are not Social enough, feel free to suggest alternatives/modifications.
However, as we established above, finding an ability that a Social class can do at night and isn’t confirmable is extremely difficult, so clearly something has to give. So the Night ability has to be allowed to be semi-Investigative and the Day abilities and passive should be mostly Social.
One idea I had for a mechanic I haven’t found a class for yet is gaining a double vote when they’re in a 1v1 situation. This makes the class confirmable only at the end, and that mechanic is definitely Social.
An alternative for Spend The Night could be “you will learn if the target received feedback of their ability”, which can cover anything from success to failure to prevention to abilities that give feedback even if nothing happened, like Guard and Heal. That makes it even less confirmable than it is now, and the Day abilities can synergise with that plus the public info passive. Something like “If your target abstained/refused to accuse today, you will ensure Investigative abilities return accurate results on them tonight.” Which is deceptive, as if you’re evil, you’re letting an Investigative think they’re getting accurate results on a fellow evil when they’re not.
Those are some example ways to make the class more Social and the sort of constructive feedback I’m looking for.
I have. He’s called the king.
First things first. Regardless of what else we do ditch the passive.
The King always has a double vote, and doing so prevents his other day ability. This works completely differently.
It is a double vote. He can use it in a 1v1.
That is the core appeal of the class and not going to happen. It literally does zero harm.