[Class suggestion] The Twins (Neutral Killer/Neutral Support)

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

The Twins work similar to the Sorcerer and the Inquisitor, both will always spawn together. The Evil Twin is a neutral killer who must kill everyone opposing him (same win condition as possessor or reaper), however unlike the inquisitor who counters the sorcerer, the good twin supports him. They must work together in order to achieve their goal.

The Evil Twin
Neutral, Killer
Win condition
Kill the BD, Cult/Unseen and anyone who opposes you.
Passive 1: Special Bond
You and your twin can communicate at night. If your twin dies at night or is executed by the prince, his killer will be revealed to you.
Passive 2: The Evil Gene
You are immune to death at night.
Night ability 1: Slash
Kill a player. Infinite uses.
Night ability 2: Psycho protector
Protect your twin tonight, healing any poison or bleeding effects on him and making him night immune. Everyone who visits your twin tonight will die. 3 uses.

The Good Twin
Neutral, Support
Win condition
You win as long as your twin achieves his goal, even if you are dead.
Passive 1: Special Bond
You and your twin can communicate at night. If your twin dies, you die as well.
Passive 2: The Good Gene
You are immune to occupation. You will appear as BD to investigative results.
Day ability 1: Swap
Swap places with your twin for the rest of the game. Cannot be used if you or your twin are on trial. 1 use. (This is similar to possessor jump, since it changes both twin’s names and positions.)
Night ability 1: Cleanup
Make your twin occupy immune and hide his visits from investigators. 3 uses.
Night ability 2: Smart Protector
Heal your twin from any poison or bleeding, and occupy anyone trying to visit him. 3 uses

Description: The evil twin is a neutral killer that might not be as powerful as other neutral killers by himself, but he always spawns with the good twin, which supports him and helps him achieve his goal. The twins can speak at night in order to plan their next move. If the evil twin is under suspicion, the good twin can swap places with him so he is killed or executed instead of his brother. If the good twin dies the killer will be revealed to the evil twin, this makes the prince think twice before executing the good twin since he will be revealed to his brother.

Note: If the evil twin becomes king, he will turn into the Psycho King. If the good twin becomes king, he will become a Neutral King, but his win condition still involves helping his twin achieve his goal. Both of these kings can still speak to their brother at night and the good twin will still commit suicide if his brother is killed.

4 Likes
#2

This is the closest we’ll get to the Noble twins, I like this idea a lot.

2 Likes
#3

I love this, I want it it the game right now haha

1 Like
#4

What happens if they both use swap?

1 Like
#5

Well, they would “exchange” passives. Good twin won’t die at night and Evil twin won’t be able to be hanged. Despite the ability’s name you dont “swap” your passives to each other if only one of you uses it, you just “transfer” said passive to your other twin while losing it yourself.

#6

so if 5 is the evil twin and 6 is the good twin and I try to target 5. If they both use Swap then who do I attack?

#7

You don’t swap positions like a cw tornado, so it doesn’t redirect any attackers. You just lend your passive to your twin. I will rename the ability to “Disguise” to avoid confusion, basically, what the skill does is this:
-Evil Twin [5] uses disguise, If Good Twin [6] is attacked tonight by an evil role, the attacker would die. However, if evil twin [5] is attacked tonight, Evil twin will die.

Each twin has his own type of protection, and this ability is a way to protect your twin by losing said protection yourself.

#8

I like the concept and the thought put into this, but don’t you think they are extremely overpowered? What’s the weakness here?

Look at the Good Twin. He literally cannot be killed by Bd at all, while he’s supporting the Evil Twin to kill Bd. Since The Evil twin IS the NK in the game, the only ones capable of killing him are Cult/Unseen, but what incentive do they have to kill him when the Twins are working against the Bd? Bd would stand no chance at all in any game with these two in play. I think they need a lot of toning down

1 Like
#9

The Twins need to get rid of both BD and the Cult/Unseen like other neutral killers. I will admit they could be toned down, so Im going to start by making their “Disguise” ability limited (to 3 uses maybe). What I was trying to achieve was to make it so that BD need to look for the Evil Twin, but with unlimited disguises this could be hard to do. I thought that it could be fine with unlimited disguises since you are not just protecting your twin, you are giving away your protection in order to do so. But it could turn the game more into a “guess if the good twin used disguise before hanging the evil twin” instead.
Also, I wanted “Good Twin” to be a valid claim for evil classes, since BD is afraid of killing the Good Twin.

Edit: Changed good twin disguise to be only 2 uses, and evil twin disguise 3 uses, since good twin’s disguise is way more powerful than the evil twin’s.

#10

This seems extremely powerful, i like the idea. however it would have to be toned down a lot.

#11

Thanks everyone for your feedback! I changed the Twins to try and make them more balanced, please check them again and tell me if they look better now!

Basically, they cannot “swap” their passives anymore, instead, now only the Good Twin has disguise as a day ability with a single use and it works a bit differently, so he needs to be more careful with it, and it can be easily baited. The Evil Twin no longer has disguise, but he can choose to protect his twin from death at the cost of not being able to kill that night (unless an evil or neutral role attacks them).
Good twin now has two night abilities, he can choose to make his twin occupy immune or occupy any BD roles trying to visit his twin.

Basically, now to get rid of the twins all you have to do is find the evil twin, the good twin can still trick you with his disguise but it is more easy to avoid it now.

#12

This were the twins as I originally suggested them, I’m putting them here for reference. I’ve made several changes based on feedback, the newest version of the Twins is in the top post. Feel free to tell me if you like the changes or if there is something from the original version you liked more:

The Evil Twin (old version)
Neutral, Killer
Win condition
Kill the BD, Cult/Unseen and anyone who opposes you.
Passive 1: Special Bond
You and your twin can communicate at night. If your twin dies, you will commit suicide the next night.
Passive 2: The evil gene
If an evil or neutral role (cult leader, assassin, alchemist) tries to kill you at night, they will die instead of you.
Day ability 1: Disguise
Disguise as your twin tonight. If an evil role tries to kill him, the attacker will die instead of him. However, your “Evil gene” passive won’t work tonight. Infinite uses.
Night ability 1: Slash
Kill a player. Infinite uses.
Night ability 2: Psycho protector
Protect your twin tonight, healing any poison or bleeding effects on him and killing all his visitors. 3 uses. Cannot be used before night 3.
(Only kills the twin’s visitors, does not make him death immune)

The Good Twin (old version)
Neutral, Support
Win condition
Live to see your twin achieve his goal.
Passive 1: Special Bond
You and your twin can communicate at night. If your twin dies, you will commit suicide the next night.
Passive 2: The good gene
You cannot be executed on trial or killed by the Blue Dragon. Any blue dragon roles that attempt to kill you (Prince, Knight, Hunter) will die of guilt the next day.
Note: If they put you on trial and the majority votes execute, you will not die an there will not be any more trials that day. The next day, the first person who accused you of treason will commit suicide.
Day ability 1: Smart Protector
Select a player. If that player tries to visit your twin tonight, they will be occupied. Infinite uses.
Night ability 1: Cleanup
Heal your twin from any poison or bleeding, make him occupy immune and hide his visits from investigators. 3 uses.
Night ability 2: Disguise
Disguise as your twin tomorrow. He cannot be executed on trial or killed by the Blue Dragon. Any blue dragon roles that attempt to kill him (Prince, Knight, Hunter) will die of guilt the next day. However, your “Good gene” passive will not work tomorrow. Infinite uses.

#13

I like the new one better actually

1 Like
#14

I don’t like the concept of not being able to be killed by a vote and not being killable by prince.

It means BD is completely helpless against this. It’s an interesting concept, but the Prince killing himself for executing someone is silly. The idea of a NK team is a good one, the actual ideas aren’t all terrible, but making someone immune to Prince executes and votes means the BD can never deal with them. If BD plays well and gets evil out of the way they’ll likely lose since they have no tools to deal with this and they’ll all just chain suicide.

#15

The reason I put that passive is because I wanted BD to kill the Evil Twin, (killing the evil twin will make the good twin die as well). Since there are two people instead of one, it is not hard to find at least one of the twins, and if they get one of them, then there is nothing the other twin can do. That is why I wanted the good twin to be “not-killable” by the blue dragon, so even if they find one of the twins, they have to be careful about killing them.
I do admit that killing the prince can be overpowered, since the good twin can easily pretend he is another role so he is executed by the prince, and it would make the prince more cautious about killing other suspicious roles. I want to avoid the good twin playing like a fool, so I’m going to think of a way to change this, but I still think the good twin needs to be a role that the blue dragon should think twice before executing.

I have several ideas to fix this:

  • Keeping the “Good gene” passive as it is, but make it so everyone knows who the good twin is at all times OR
  • Making the good twin killable by blue dragon, but then the evil twin would get his revenge somehow before dying. (Maybe making it so that instead of dying the next night he stays alive for 3 nights and becomes more powerful or something?) OR
  • Letting the evil twin live after his brother dies but he loses some abilities or effects, making it harder for him to achieve his goal. OR
  • Making the good twin useful to the BD somehow, so they are not as likely to kill him even if they find him early (like alchemists).

Im honestly more inclined towards the second option, but those are the options I think could work.

#16

I love this idea about twins. I really want to try and write lore behind the twins already because in the lore of “The Scorned”, the woman who is the scorned had twins, which were the first ever heard of twins in the kingdom, so it really adds up. :slight_smile:

But I love the idea!

1 Like
#17

I changed the twins once again. This should make them more balanced, since the good twin is no longer immune to the BD, however if the good twin dies the evil twin will turn into “The vengeful twin” which is more powerful and has an easier win condition, but will die after three days. The vengeful twin’s win condition is very hard to achieve unless the good twin is killed late in the game, so its main purpose is to deter people from killing the good twin. I also removed disguise on the good twin and replaced it with “Sincere Apology” which is a last measure ability that can buy you and your twin a little bit more time, and “Disguise” makes little sense with the good twin’s changed passive.

#18

The vengeful idea seems better, though i still don’t love anyone being immune to being voted.

#19

It is very hard to win as the vengeful twin unless the good twin was killed late in the game. Once he transforms he is revealed, so at least you know not to waste your skills on him. The reason I made him immune to voting (as well as pretty much everything) is because people should be afraid to kill the good twin, even later in the game. Lets say it is late in the game, both twins are alive and there are only three blue dragon left besides them. If the vengeful twin wasn’t immune to voting, they can execute any of the twins and they will win, since even if they kill the good twin, they can just vote and execute the vengeful twin tomorrow. This makes it so that even late in the game, people are punished for killing the good twin.

#20

I changed the way King twins work with the addition of the Psycho King.