Cytat
I actually wouldn’t mind a ranked which is the exact same format as casual and you get a straight +1 for win -1 for loss. All the crazy elo manipulations fuck things up big time.
Ye, +1 and -1 is very fair… Especially that some roles have 50% win ratio, and some have 1%. Devs of these game are not unexperienced like ToS devs - I’m sure they would be able to develop much better elo system than just bring it to such unfair simplicity. I don’t think we need to worry about elo system implementation a lot.
Cytat
I don’t think you understand how core conversion is to the balance of this game . You change it even slightly and you’ve gotta redesign every aspect of the whole game.
I do understand. Game after changes I proposed of course should be retested & rebalanced. But devs made it flexible. I’m quite sure they can change values like charges amount in matter of seconds. More invasive skill change shouldn’t be a huge problem too. My solution is probably still one of the simpliest possible to fix problems I see in ToL (and stay up to the goals I set up).
I am just saying that people with that kind of attitude would add way too much salt and not encourage people to play Ranked.
And yet, they still quit. I’ve played a lot of ranked CS:GO back in the day, at least a month or so. I got bored, and found new and interesting games to play, so I moved on to them and now I came back to CS:GO. People will come back for the experience, rather then stay for a long period of time.
As @Hippolytus said himself, you change one thing, you change everything. Ranked should be something familiar to Casual, just a little more skilled.
Ehh… I mean, almost every neutral except for the Fool has some form of Night immunity. In a 16 people game, the chance of you dying at night n1-n3 is highly unlikely. For the King, he only has 4 guards, and he can only do so much. King is a valueable asset which shouldn’t be wasted so quickly.
Even though it isn’t my topic, I’ll still comment on this anyways. By changing the core mechanics, you are literally making an entirely new game. The game is already hard on its own, just making the game harder would be enough for a Ranked. Some people just wanted to improve their skill, and not go boldly and just lose because of some new game mechanic they didn’t know about.
Cytat
I am just saying that people with that kind of attitude would add way too much salt and not encourage people to play Ranked.
Well, because I have no other option - I play casuals now. And you know, what discourages me from playing? No, not toxic people. I would actually love to play with toxic people, if only they were focused on game. What is CURRENTLY THE BIGGEST problem for me - is players not caring. There is evil king (our unseen that claimed throne), cult member and 2 BD members. What happens? Cult member votes up his evil king with BD members and executes him. People simply make so many huge mistakes, do not use logical thinking etc. etc., that playing on any level better than “oh I’ll randomly use my abilities and vote randomly” is pointless.
I love logical games. And when playing games with other people - I love playing with logical people. They can be unpredictable, sometime chaotic, but definitely they shouldn’t act randomly and stupidly. It destroys all fun. This is why casual mode will simply not be long-term-playable for me and many other hardcore players at current state of game. We will choose ToS, because there is deduction, there is logical thinking and everyone actually cares and tries to win.
Cytat
Don’t say that! Town of Salem is an excellent game, and the game is Free To Play too. They can only do so much with a F2P game.
It’s excellent game, because they managed to somehow finish project. But it’s written poorly from ground up. If devs had more experience and chose better technologies, with same amount of time and other resources they would make the game more stable, non-hackable etc. But I still appreciate their work.
It all evens out in the end lol. Statistically you will get the hardest role to win as as much as everyone else. So what is you get a class with 1% win rate. EVERYONE gets that sane class about the same amount of times if you play enough games.
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It all evens out in the end lol. Statistically you will get the hardest role to win as as much as everyone else. So what is you get a class with 1% win rate. EVERYONE gets that sane class about the same amount of times if you play enough games.
That is true, you got a point here. But the problem is - if elo is a number, like 1000, and let’s say you have for example 50% chance to get role with 10% win ratio… No matter how good you are - after playing a lot you will be always going down. The system can work only if in general - considering statistics of all classes win ratio would be 50%.
You say that you can’t use Logic and Deduction to win the game and yet most of time I win because of my ability to lie and my ability to pick out lies. Remember that good play as BD makes you trusted. I have used this to my advantage as the starting assassin for example . This means that better players will win more than chance tells you.
This might be your personality type, but not everyone is a logic loving player, some play for fun. I never said Ranked shouldn’t be implemented, I actually WANT to implement Ranked, but not im the way you described it. For those who do bad mistakes, I’m a victim of it myself. Remember, the game just released Two Fridays ago, meaning it’s still very difficult for new players such as myself (Partially) to adjust, as the game offers passives, multiple night abilities and day abilities. Overall Throne of Lies is a very difficult game, and you must be patient with everyone.
Again, the game is FREE TO PLAY! Sure, the game is not perfect but the game is still a free to play game, and the developers can only do so much with a free to play budget consisying of Micro transactions.
I fully agree with you. Scum reading and being able to scum efficiently is almost a guaranteed pass to win, rather then using logic. Remember: Throne of Lies is not a logic game, it’s a psychology game
Again, the game is still in its infancy. Give people time to learn to play and improve the win rate of said class.
Side Note: Some people just care for ELO, which is not a very good competitive environment as some people will do anything to win, rather then win by skill. Also, playing with Toxic people ruins your mood and therefore you’ll lose more, just saying out of experience
The funny thing is I’m exactly the type of player @radarsu is speaking for, but I know that trying to put a competitive mode here just will not end well.
I’ve been doing this whole “competitive real-time Mafia-based game balancing” thing for years, please trust me on this one. I would be the very first one to be pushing for a competitive mode if there was any possibility it would work without redesigning the game, but I see no good solutions that keep the core gameplay stable.
Honestly the closest we could get to a “Ranked” mode would probably be to just sort players by winrate or something. It would still be a salty cesspool, but at least the LLN would take effect over trying to fit a modified Elo calculation to a conversion-based game.
Leaving salt at home is one of the rules, and the community is great anyways. I am not very worried about a toxic player base with this game, but there are always some bad apples.
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I’ve been doing this whole “competitive real-time Mafia-based game balancing” thing for years, please trust me on this one. I would be the very first one to be pushing for a competitive mode if there was any possibility it would work without redesigning the game, but I see no good solutions that keep the core gameplay stable.
In ToS even their elo system is really badly designed - it somehow works (even though you can hack elo by quitting games xD). But in general being higher elo in ToS makes you not face situations like “2x 100% confirmed allies vs 1x 100% evil” and allies voting each other and losing a game for all dead people from their faction.
Just by the fact of having elo number value - people change attitude to the game. For casuals - to aggresive & unpleasent one - for us - they just care about win/lose, and that’s what we need. Even if elo doesn’t mean much and is quite random number, the numerical value motivates people to care just by it’s existance and psychological influence.
So I do believe it is possible and probably not perfect, but quite solid. I agree that it requires changes - as I stated - I don’t see an option to do competetive wisely without removing/reducing class-conversion mechanics.
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Honestly the closest we could get to a “Ranked” mode would probably be to just sort players by winrate or something. It would still be a salty cesspool, but at least the LLN would take effect over trying to fit a modified Elo calculation to a conversion-based game.
That is why in my proposal I removed (actually super-hardly minimized) conversion mechanics. Problem solved.
. You change it even slightly and you’ve gotta redesign every aspect of the whole game.
