ToS tried that
It did not go well
Somewhere like 80% of people voted to keep the Spy the same and the community then exploded because vets really really hate spy but casual players just voted yes out of what I can only call ignorance
To rectify this the devs had to change Spy anyways and now nobody is happy
2 Likes
OSRS does this if 75% of players agree. The player must have played for a specific amount of hours there as well and have a specific skill level (and be a member but the two later ones cannot and shouldnāt apply to tol)
Iād also suggest if a player has had a warning recently. They should wait 1-2 days but a ban should have to wait 1-2 weeks after their ban before voting on a poll.
I think itās a great idea to get everyone. Especially if you just do it
*Also DONāT make anyone have more priority. Itāll just piss off the people in the community. Devs, Mods, Judges, Guides, Kickstarter Backers and Patreon Supporters should not have an extra say. Everyone should be equal like communism for this system or votes will unfairly pass even if the majority doesnāt want it.
Also Iād suggest doing a poll for every single change. Even new events or skins. Even if you think theyāll pass anyway.
Loser talks about one specific event that should be handled extremely carefully
Please do not assume from this passage that I dislike the idea of this event entirely and donāt call me the H word and ban me. Yes Iām an extremely controversial member in the community (around orangeandblack level) but Iām just doing this so you can learn from previous mistakes from other devs.
Thereās one specific event that Iāve seen cause controversy within games and other things so Iād possibly say poll that one before doing it if you ever want to.
I mean, you dont really have those type of people playing from what Iāve seen but if that event ever does happen without the community support. The mods probably wont have fun while banning these said people.
Many of the mods would support this as I can see already since some of them are part of it and inclusive and I can only tell that two of the devs are there too.
Hell even 3 of the classes have been confirmed to fit into this group. Prince, Alch and Merc.
I dont care if this event is added in personally. Itās not really one for me and I wonāt be mad if it passes.
Iāll just probably look at it and say. āOh cool.ā
Just from seeing OSRS and the SCP wikiās controversy with this specific event.
Even Overwatchās first Christmas comic with one specific reveal.
Iām only wanting to warn you.
also Russia might hate your game even more
Iām not against any LGBT people (hell I have friends in that group). Iām just warning about how this event is a controversial addition and might paint you in a bad light if you handle it the wrong way.
Oh, I wouldnāt show the survey results. It would solely be feedback for the devs, not players. Now people wonder why we donāt show survey results, this is why 
sort of like this patch, there are way more considerations than just player feedback that goes into changes. Not everyone can see that ā and those that canāt get really pissed and āvoiceā their opinion louder than others, so to say.
Really, the only balance prioritiesā¦ goes to the balance dev, who probably gives priority to me + Ellieās feedback, but we donāt really get in the way (I didnāt get in the way of Ellieās balancing over the past 2 years, either (maybe only at the beginning), and I like the direction weāve gone in ā while there will always be those that disagree). We consider both new and veteran player feedback.
The fact is, the level of complexity was not this high during launch, and we did have a certain level of consistency. It was already pretty intuitive, without any official system. Over time, there just became a big heap of garbage āleftoversā that was never meant to be, sometimes mistaken to be done on purpose as if weāre trying to add a new layer of complexity (we were not).
This is also why #feedback in Discord defaults to only a thumbs UP. Weāre interested how many people are INTERESTED, not ānot interestedā. Itās often the same group of people that mass votes down, but varieties of people that upvote. Sort of like Steam reviews: People only upvote if they REALLY WANT TO. People will downvote if they get a 1 minute mute or merely disagreed with their idea ;p
As for balance, every single balance patch is subjective. Even for AAA games that will change OP mechanics by 0.1% get super flamed by people. Itās been this way since the dawn of this game. There will always be more patches. And there will always be more patches that youāll both love and hate. As devs, we just have to find the best balance, do what we think is best for everyone, and observe. We simply do the best we can, and weāre indie. The weight of feedback is strong.
This is why weāre so strict about the way feedback is delivered (not that itās good or bad, just simply constructive and civil): Ellie was already burned out. We donāt want to burn out Armae: Sheās the last we got lol. This is why she hasnāt said anything yet, I honestly didnāt ask her to write a blog yet, as I know sheāll do it when sheās comfortable. Iām not going to force her, either, because she may lose her passion if I did that. Give her some time ;p No matter what she says, the patch is it what it is and there will be improvements.
4 Likes
I strongly oppose giving Hunter Retribution back. Especially with the proposed change of allowing him to arrow his desired target, he would be literally a Jester.
To prevent Distract from being unfun I allowed the blackmailed player to talk to their blackmailer.
This is a fantastic idea, I support it 100%. Also, thereās actually potential for practical utility here. You can often negotiate with evils especially if the Neutral Killer is still alive.
Icy Touch(2 souls): Consume 2 souls to Blackmail, Distract, and Bewilder your target for the rest of the day.
I support this 100%.
- Great change. Though why are you willing to merge these yet keep Sheriff and Paladin separate? They have the exact same problem.
I would also like to see Sheriff and Paladin merged, or at least able to spawn regardless of whether it were Unseen or Cult game.
Canāt Touch This nerf
I wish Mastermind would simply be unique (no new one) and permanently unsuspicious. Like in Town of Salem. Itās simple, and involves no artificial time limit and complication like āstarting Assassin will become Mastermind but not new Assassin,ā or āMastermind is unsuspicious until Night 4 and the Assassin will become Mastermind if the Mastermind dies before then.ā
1 Like
I disagree on this point, since what made Jester kills bad was that they were arbitrary due to being on a kingmaker, and generally failed at their attempt to harm village for actually playing the game and lynching peo-
oh sorry iām going on a Jester/Fool rant again
I disagree with the Sheriff and Paladin merge simply because if you merge them then the complaints about the Unseen and Cult being the same will be tripled and the game will feel more same-y because of it
And thatās why Iām still a fan of making one hardcounter unconvertible even though thatās way harder to balance
Actually ToS has the same replacement system as the Unseen
Spacifically a specific generic mafia (mafioso) can promote and not any other mafia members
the starting mafioso is the equivalent to the starting assassin and acts identical in this context
1 Like
That could work, but it would leave the prince with no counterplay.
Agreed. Thatās mainly why I disliked the prevention overhaul. The point of adding more prevention in the first place was to not confirm jailed targets.
And whatās wrong with that? Trading a hunter for MM is a great trade. Plus it allows the hunter to still act aggressively even after he runs out of bears.
That problem lies with the factions themselves though, not the cops. The cops have their own issues(outing the opposing faction instantly, only being useful while the enemy faction is still alive, and smite is overpowered).
Iām going to lock this thread since itās heavily derailed, talking about balance when Non-Balance is in the title Please make a new thread in #lore to discuss balance~
(For feedback relevant to OP, thanks folks!)
2 Likes