I think they are complaining about the lack of counter play. If it was easier to find NK’s in general but harder to confirm the people that do that (for example making the Unseen and Cult better and dealing with them) then it would give the game more depth. Personally I think mostly a meta thing and not a problem with the king itself.
Point being that the NK’s are balanced right now meaning that any changes should be to make them more fun.
Sidegrades essentially
Me neither but I assume he did not just pull these numbers out of his ass. Curse my trusting nature.
If your talking about me then I will have you know that while I did not pull the numbers out of nothing they are IDEALS. I do happen to know that in 1.0.5 (possibly the patch before or after that) NK did in fact have a 20% win rate. I have no idea about the win rates now and not sure about the BD vs Cult vs Unseen. The numbers I gave are for what the win rates should be for the game to be considered perfectly balanced.
Basically the reasoning is this:
There are usually 2 non-NK neuts (counting king and not counting merc)
that means that in most games its 14 faction members and to start:
2 of them are Unseen/Cult
1 of them is NK and
11 of them are BD
In most games there would be an average of 4 converts (this number might have changed. Someone please check to see if this is true. It tends to be in my experience. You should count mercs on evil in this number) for a total of 6 Evils (unseen/cult) 7 BD and 1 NK
Now if everyone is exactly as skilled as everyone else that means that wining is determined purely by random factors (this would never actually happen because it is highly unlikely for everyone to be the same skill level).
There are 2 ways you can randomly assign a winier that are relevant to this.
1: Pick a random player and that players faction wins. With that mindset the winrates would be 50/43/7
OR
2: Pick a random faction that wins. The winrates for that would be 33/33/33
To allow for the benefits of both methods I averaged the 2 values to get 41/38/20/1
I had the 1% draw because there should be the possibility for everyone to die.
In my opinion Reaper/Poss should be removed from the game. I feel like they just create a huge ammount of RNG and aren’t fun to play against. Back before patch, games whitout them were my favorite.
That’s actually partially correct - you want a balance between equal winrates and proportional winrates, so that part of your calculation was spot on.
However, don’t count all Neutrals towards a NK win - only count 0-1. Other Neutrals will usually die before the NK wins.
@Sketch Boslof’s “three factions” are BD/Cult/Unseen, I think, not BD/scum/nk.
Not removed, new gamemode with no Neutrals.
Add one to the Unseen/Cult conversion limits, and if they need further buffing have them start with an extra player.
I didn’t count them to NK. I didn’t count them at all.
The calculation was done as if there were 14 players because the neutrals should average out anyway. (Plus it make the math much harder)
If I counted all Neutrals as being pro NK then I would put it as 3/16 or 18% as a base rather than 7%
My point is that some adjustment clearly needs to be made to that math for the sake of more fun games
A NK win 1 out of every 10 games is still a lot, so it should be at most 10% imo
I hope Drunk isn’t changed too much. While it may not be fun it’s rather powerful right now.
Any changes to Drunk will probably serve to make it and the Court Wizard different roles
Right now they’re pretty similar
Are there any plans to start keeping track of stats and/or win rates? As of now I feel like gold isn’t a big enough motivator for winning.
Noble needs something.
Right now it’s “be bored till end game, if you live then you’ll be really strong.”
CW has issues in that without knowing targets you can’t do much and anything you do might hurt your team more than help them. Drunk is decent once you figure out who someone is, so I don’t mind that one as much.
I’m not sure i would completly remove neutrals. I think some of them are fun. I just dislike neutral killers. But i would definetly play that mode lol
I dont think neutsout is a big a thing as it used to be , Players that clam it on the stand are in trouble , but earlier claimers often can be excepted .
even saw a BD hung the other day because he was the only guy who voted ex when the consensus was to save the the alch .
His defence was pitiful though .
Omg guys #neutsout. was the only thing he said on the stand .
