[FM] Lord of the Rings Forum Mafia - (7/25) - Completed - Mafia Wins!

[Firekitten]

I think for fun and memes I’m just going to try something completely unlike firekitten to every do, something firekitten would never do next game

[Vulgard]

post a readlist

[Firekitten]

Posting readlists is something I’ll never do. I just have my readlist in my head and that is it.

[Vulgard]

Not even for fun and memes?
I see.

[Hippolytus]

I genuinely think the maf have conversion - explains why theyre prolly playing it safe and ppl have lots of townreads cuz maf team is small.

Wouldnt be surprised if the ring itself converts, that way its not linked to one specific scum making the game super swingy.

This means early game its gonna be slow but for those of us alive in lategame its gonna be insane.

[Firekitten]

The thing with readlist is they trap you to stay with your current reads because people will be questioning you about your reads changing and i’m like dude that is literally how mafia works but they won’t stop

[Firekitten]

You don’t get to like that comment when you make readlist arete.

[MaximusPrime]

ok fk being bored and depressed is probs town fk then

[Vulgard]

I never know what to think about this type of reads

[Vulgard]

I’ve been playing this game like I’m bipolar and it kinda makes me uncomfortable ngl

[Firekitten]

it’s a wrong read I’m depressed and bored based on how people act in the game. I get bored as scum when town doesn’t seem to be putting up a challenge, and I get bored as town when it seems like mafia isn’t putting up a challenge. I change my play mid game depending on my mood and my emotions which is correlated on how the game is progressing, right now it’s so slow that I don’t feel like doing anything because I feel like my reads are right, now. If a lot of town was to flip you would see me accelerating while if a lot of mafia flip you will see me deaccelerating

[Emilia]

Dont try

[Firekitten]

There’s other reasons for my play right now but that’s not relevant now and probably won’t till after the game

[Hippolytus]

Im truly shocked we havent had an IC reveal for no reason yet.

[Emilia]

That because I havent claimed L-2 on anyone

[MaximusPrime]

reveals as ic

jk im not ic don’t kill me pls

[Vulgard]

PKR was the closest thing we got.

[Solic]

@Vulgard

In my defense, it started when I was asleep.

I called this shit out already. I have a poor entrance post? You literally start it out defensively.

@Vulgard

Rivendell doesn’t look terrible to me. There should be at least a few consensus townreads at EoD so we could let them get the heal and guarantee at least one consensus townread lives to D2.

Minas Tirith is probably better D2->D3 in my opinion. I expect more wagons to pop up D2 because of night results, so the first effect could be helpful.

Or we could get Mordor out of the way because the effect gets stronger for scum as the game goes on?

Isengard is… probably fine right now. The first effect benefits both factions, the second too - if we have town vigs. Somebody lives through a vig = suspicious. Actually this is one of the best choices right now I think.

Mount Doom is… weird? I don’t know if it benefits us at all. It seems difficult to control and might lead to something similar to a random lynch. And it also causes a lot of death N1 but that’s less of an issue since it’ll narrow things down, making it easier to establish the PoE.

/vote Isengard

I think this map is the best for D1.

@Vulgard

/vote Mount Doom

Good job, you sold me.

D1 is going to be hell with this map on though.

Sounds artificial when they were literally just “weird” map before.

@Vulgard

Weewooweewoo scumslip

No followup though.

@Vulgard

Hello Solic

This is just unnerving. I don’t know what to make of this.

@Vulgard

Did you just hardclaim neutral?

Neutral searching is what scum does. Easier to appear gamesolving that way. I recognize that from my own scum games.

@Vulgard

I was told that villagers wanted Mount Doom

But I want to find fellow allies, and since this would help identify (or so I thought) them, I agreed.

Sounds like villagers are not your allies
If this is a lost wolf signal I’m going to laugh.

Sounds like you’re happy about finding lost wolves. Weird tone.

@Vulgard

I’ve been writing ‘BD’ in my reads instead of town/village.
efeafea

I don’t have enough experience with Vulgard to know if they would make a fake readlist in classcard to be ready for anything… Towny post.

@Vulgard

Yeah this really feels like Tele’s town game to me.
Last time she was town she was my top scumread for posting like this and now she’s doing that again in a game we’re both in.
I don’t think she’d do that as scum.

I also don’t think Vulgard would so flagrantly ignore not talking about ongoing games if they were scum. Frick I’m changing my mind.

@Vulgard

Who would you vote right now?
Top 2 scumreads/townreads.

Should see if they did anything with this.

@Vulgard

How does Derps manage to flip-flop between bad and towny posts I don’t get it.

I actually annoyingly melded with this back then. And now we know Derps is basically cleared due to bleed/Kai interactions.

@Vulgard

Okay, if you don’t want to help me read you then be my guest.
Isn’t Andrej typically a slanker? Doesn’t seem like a great direction for voting.

@Vulgard

Thoughts on Andrej?

40 minutes in between, weird transition. (Maybe Andrej actually started posting here in between.

@Vulgard

I think Solic is scummy too but for completely different reasons.
The post about astand saying how his hammer ability works wasn’t as bad as Solic is making it out to be. Even though I scumread astand, I don’t like the fact we’re completely out of alignment on our scumread. This typically reads as scummy to me because I have a tendency to meld with my strongest townreads and I haven’t melded with Solic once this game.
Solic is also misreading Derps really badly in #704 which FK immediately points out, making me townread FK and scumread Solic even more.
Also Solic seems to be overwhelmingly defensive overall, which additionally bothers me.

He’s probably one of my biggest scumreads right now.

I was kind of satisfied with him clearing this up with referring to our last game together which was literally my first forum game tbh. I play differently now.

@Vulgard

/vote Mordor

Mordor voter.

@Vulgard

Just take the ‘townread’, scum!Alice

Don’t like that there has been no justification for it so far.

@Vulgard

Also fun little fact. Solic and Marshal both posted a wall about all of the locations around the time of their opening posts. I don’t think two scum members would do that so it’s very likely they’re different alignments unless scum are playing a really weird game.

Weird reads always read as town to me.

@Vulgard

Real talk though if both are legit then why did astand just dayvig a person in a gladiate before anything could happen.

@Vulgard

Hippo gladiated PKR and astand immediately dayvigged him

Unless they are both faking.

I hate sideline comments. Scummy.

@Vulgard

Like
Are you two masons or something
That was so coordinated you two are either scum or you somehow melded completely on a reaction test.

If Vulgard is scum, Astand and Hippo are town and this is 100% TMI.

@Vulgard

Okay, I’m still not entirely sure on what’s going on, but I do know we have to choose a location. From what I read, Minas Tirith seems better

Starts with map discussion, which is okay + I brought that map into the limelight so the fact Squid also thought it was good makes me feel good about the slot.

A few other posts don’t contribute very much to the game. Aside from this one:

PoisonedSquid:

Some of the other maps have benefits for the Mafia and I’m not sure it’d be a good idea for them to have an advantage early on

Which I disagreed with, but it’s irrelevant now.

PoisonedSquid:

no Bree early game

I disagree HARD with that.

PoisonedSquid:

But what if Mafia finds a Town Investigative, a Jailkeeper, or any other important Town class? If those Town Controlled Kills don’t make a big impact, then the Mafia are going to take them out without a doubt once they can kill

And this is a bad justification because mafia can find these classes regardless of whether their investigative abilities are guaranteed to succeed or not. This reads to me as Squid trying hard for Bree to not be chosen because it prevents scum from killing tonight, and that would be highly inconvenient for them.

PoisonedSquid:

I tried to read every single post I missed, but it’s a lot, so… all I know is that people are voting for Bree and I can feel the disappointment rising within me

Still does that here.

PoisonedSquid:

I’m pretty sure a Mafia map early game would be terrible no matter what

Ignoring the points in favor of it for no apparent reason. I’m thinking Squid would find a good reason as town about why a Mafia map early game is bad, but Squid didn’t even bother to explain.

I want to lynch this today.

This sounds really forced, especially since they are just mechanical bs and Squid could easily be LHF (not absolving Squid here by any means), but don’t like that this is the first serious sounding push. Also very late.

@Vulgard

Probably a good thing. I find it funny how easily you call people ‘bad’ and get angry when people are scumreading you.
I’m just always hoping you don’t actually mean to kill the players.

@Vulgard

You seem to be the closest thing to a new Margaret

Can’t hold all these pockets.

@Vulgard

you can go through my past bruh’s.

Level 4 scumreading

Arete’s push on Alice is weird as hell and weirdly timed too. I don’t think scum would’ve chosen this moment for a push on her though. It seems like it would’ve accomplished way more when we could actually vote people and form wagons. Right now it just… doesn’t do anything.

…Wait. Why a push that doesn’t do anything? @Arete
Is Alice your top priority lynch today?

This feels so weak, I hate it.

@Vulgard

Good job, you’re actually making sense with your map choices unlike Squid before who just said ‘not choosing Bree because… no, not choosing Bree don’t choose Bree.’

Speaking of which, your thoughts on Squid? Not a very long ISO

At least they follow up, that’s good.

@Vulgard

You see I liked your post until you said this.

Solic:

Hey Vulgard, meet RVS.

No way that read was RVS. No way in hell that was RVS. That defense is bs.

Also don’t try to AtE because I hate AtE.

Fair.

@Vulgard

Also why are two people dead what happened.

Why do these always sound so fake…

@Vulgard

Simon at least tries to contribute mechanics-wise, although I’m keeping a close eye on him because I’d like to see some reads.

These close eye comments flip scum just sooo frequently. I feel like this ISO is going all over the place.

@Vulgard

/vote Mordor

I skimmed these 1200 posts and I barely saw any meaningful content. It felt like people were just shitposting in the thread and discusing nothing substantial.

Especially Ginger and Marshal were being shitposters extraordinaire. Ginger at least tried to make reads in his own weird way that completely baffles me. Marshal was just… not doing anything and defending every single post people scumread him for. It feels like he’s overly paranoid of being suspected - he’s not even being pushed by multiple people or anything. They could easily both be scum doing scum theater.

Simon at least tries to contribute mechanics-wise, although I’m keeping a close eye on him because I’d like to see some reads. His perspective feels third-person if that makes sense - like he’s not invested in the game, which I typically read as scummy. It could just be his playstyle, but I still get pinged the wrong way by his style of posting. Potential scum here.

Tele is… I’m not sure. I know I said before that if she’s really scummy to me D1, she’s probably town, but I keep watching her post and I’m not sure if it comes from town anymore. I wouldn’t lynch this today but I think Tele is a good check.

Boss’s reads aren’t very good but at least he posted actual reads in the ‘people shitpost for 1200 posts’ message flood. If he was scum he wouldn’t feel the need to do this because of the threadstate, so I’m townreading Boss for it.

I don’t like Alice seeing Boss as scummy despite that fact. I’m generally wary of people I don’t meld with whatsoever because it feels like their logic comes from a non-town place. Also, scumreading Solic seems… a little easy? I read Solic as scum as well but I have a bad feeling about what her scumreads are. They don’t feel very exploratory - people have already read Marshal as scum and the same thing applies to Boss & Solic. I expected Alice to focus on other people sooner.

Admittedly she’s doing that right now so I’m watching closely. Who knows, maybe she realized the same thing about her play that I did.

Max is super town based on his posting so far and I would place him in the towncore if we establish one.

Arete/Alice is interesting and feels TvS to me. It has to be resolved sooner or later. It can’t be SvS because their interactions don’t feel orchestrated, so they’re either TvT or TvS. I’m leaning TvS right now.

I don’t like that they didn’t include Squid in this as they were supposedly primarily pushing them.

@Vulgard

Oh, STB posted a readlist.
It’s… well, what I would expect from a newer player (though I’m not actually sure if STB is new.) The lack of confidence is something I would normally read as scummy but if you’re a new player it can easily happen as town - I know that was the case with me.

I have way too many townreads. 2+ scum are in my townreads and I’m trying to figure out which ones.

WHAT? The previous list was basically all scum. WHAT? Weird.

@Vulgard

If you’re town, Ici, help me figure that out. For now I think you’re scum.

If Vulgard flips scum, I think Ici is scum too based on this. Please let me try and help you get townread… like what.

@Vulgard

That doesn’t matter. He keeps going back to the Solic read which appears to be his only scumread, but he hasn’t done anything with it really. It feels lazy especially since many others players scumread Solic at this point of the game.

It feels weird that you’d start scumreading people for scumreading me, WHILE still scumreading me. Unnatural.

@Vulgard

It’s more like I’m giving him an opportunity to clear himself if he’s town because I’m not 100% sold on him being scum as of right now.

And even if he’s scum, I would rather have Boss vigged, since I see other lynch possibilities today that aren’t Boss.

WHAT IN THE EARLIER WALL HE TOWNREAD BOSS. Aaaahhhhhh???

@Vulgard

If I get hammer today I would be okay with shooting Boss immediately after lynch if he doesn’t clear himself by then.

WHAT HAPPENED. VULGARD IS SCUM.

@Vulgard

There’s basically been no resistance to Boss’ wagon, tbh.

That’s why I think this might be town and I’m wary of people jumping on it.
Vigging the slot resolves that better in my opinion.

Okayyy this migitates it a little bit, but this freaks me the hell out.

@Vulgard

I want Boss to be vigged, not lynched.
In fact I can personally vig him if I hammer a different wagon since it’s going to provide some good VCA.
Assuming Boss doesn’t clear himself by EoD, which he should be capable of doing if he’s town.

Wait, it’s a setup to ensure that the vig is on Boss. Boss and Vulgard aren’t on the same team I think.

@Vulgard

This feels weird.
It feels like Boss and Squid are TMI townreading each other. If I get the hammer I’m vigging there today.
If one flips town the other is spewed town.

How can town ever spew town? The fuck is this @Vulgard

@Vulgard

I guess you two could both be scum but I’m waiting for that ‘self-resolve’ to decide that.

Or it feels like you’re waiting for Alice to reveal IC or something, so you can’t push them.

@Vulgard

Boss/Squid and Alice/astand

Both pairs feel like they’re TMI townreading each other and I don’t like the outlook. 2 scum there I think. If all 4 are town I’m revisiting all of my reads.

How is this a thing…?

@Vulgard

Meme or not I actually like Hja’s readlist if the scummiest people are at the bottom like I assume.
Aside from Universal I guess but boss/quid + ici + ginger/simon I can totally see being scum this game, maybe even all of them

This feels opportunistic excitement to get Hja on a mislynch train when it was literally a randomly generated list from the OP.

@Vulgard

…
…
dayvig me i just agreed with a meme readlist

@Vulgard

If a meme readlist legitimately looks good to me I don’t know what I’m doing this game.

Hmm I like these posts following it.

@Vulgard

…I don’t get the Solic read.
Came out of nowhere after a lot of scumreading. Was that an attempt to mutually clear one another? Solic has been brought forward as a lynch candidate numerous times and Ici suddenly clears him when we get to lynch phase. When he was scumreading him before for many, many reasons.
This was either a TMI clear or scum theater to me.
My vote stays on Ici.

Again this fencesittey attitude on me. I hate it. Even more so, that later on it turned out to a clear out vote.

@Vulgard

I was expecting Ici to go somewhere with his read but he ended up doing a complete 180 and clearing Solic based on a reaction that doesn’t lock Solic as town.

Icibalus:

I am allowed to change my mind, you do realise?

Not my point. You were tunneling him the whole day and now you’re suddenly backtracking. It felt unnatural and not towny whatsoever.

I disagree wholeheartedly and it did make him seem more townie to me.

@Vulgard

It’s not even that anybody helped Ici get out of the tunnel, he just went ‘oh wait Solic town’ and did a 180.
The timing of it being in lynch phase is way too convenient too.

astand:

Why would wolf backtrack like that.

If they’re scum together Ici doesn’t want Solic to get lynched so he preemptively clears Solic. If Ici is scum he whiteknights Solic because that gives him a lot of towncred for not jumping on a fairly easy mislynch (in this state of the game). It’s beneficial either way.

I don’t think town Ici would start this tunnel and get himself out of it, it feels way too orchestrated like he planned to get out of it from the very beginning. That’s the part I think is really scummy.

More fencesittey attitude on me.

@Vulgard

That’s one of the hardest to read posts I’ve ever seen but I think I get what you’re saying.
…Actually no I don’t. I still think the whole tunnel thing from you was scummy.

Solic:

fairly easy mislynch

contain yourself Solic… It’s fine… you’re okay… it’s okay… move along.

Vulgard:

a fairly easy mislynch (in this state of the game)

Vulgard:

in this state of the game

I think they gave a very clear reason eventually.

@Vulgard

/vote @Kai_5 why are you scum

When was this vote… Someone save me with VCA.

@Solic

So PKR had a super genuine reaction tbh, so they earned my townread prior, but Kai clearly doesn’t agree.

Kai_5:

honestly i kinda dont like how pkr is insisting to be the hammer vote

Kai_5:

you realize where im coming from correct?

-person insists on getting heals and LOs
-person insists on being hammer vote

HRMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM thats getting my noggin a joggin

These two posts feel like a contradiction in terms. In one they don’t care at all, but in the other they name it specifically as a reason why they should be townread.

Kai_5:

i dont give a shit about your claim, you could easily be lying

Kai_5:

a rez, but i have zero reasons to TR you other than your claim

Then they follow up with something that really doesn’t sound like they genuinely thought that themselves prior.

Alice:

…I feel like nobody’s bothering to make reads and/or associations thanks to PKR shifting the discussion to his claim and the maps…

Kai_5:

yea, thats a reason im not liking PKR

Why would it irk you, when it’d be so good for town.

Kai_5:

im just not liking pkr at all chief, his insistence on getting the hammer even if it is a rez kinda irks me

So scumread them for a proper reason instead of shading them…

Kai_5:

could easily be a scum trying to get a good hammering passive

Kai_5:

im not deadset on pkr=scum, i just kinda dislike it.

This also feels so fake. Like PKR can control any discussion.

Kai_5:

literally hes trying to control the discussion, i personally dislike the fact he’s tunnelvisioned on getting hammer which could provide an excuse to not vote scummy people and when they do get hammered he can easily be "oh i was offlibne wtf why did yall hammer

It’s so easy to suggest a policy lynch on lulMagnus, who also flipped town btw.

Kai_5:

just me or am i the only one tempted to PL magnus until he actually starts contributing?

Kai_5:

policy lynch

The next one is also kind of ironic, but at least you didn’t get yourself modkilled.

Kai_5:

you until you stop fluff posting every single game and start contributing

Kai_5:

WAIT HE FLAVOR CLAIMED

Kai_5:

no you deadass get modkilled for flavor claiming

Kai_5:

there’s a mechanical name under your class name

Kai_5:

if you seriously wanted to die if you flip town your playing a dangerous game when it comes to defining gamethrowing

This also legit sounds excited!! Happy a town has died.

Kai_5:

sigh
two TPs dead d1. things are going swimmingly

Yea, this doesn’t sound genuine at all.

Kai_5:

yea, can we agree to PL magnus until he starts actually contributing

Kai_5:

yea but in the future

These are actually posts that fit previous narrative pretty well however.

Kai_5:

Updated Readlist

Town
Hippo - He is just obvious town and I am sure you guys agree with this
Arete - If I were mafia I wouldn’t push Alice here, ever, and definitely not on the early day
Hjasik - Meta blah blah, she seems more carefree than usual and is not trying to stay under the radar (Not that it would work). Don’t think I have seen her push anyone today yet though
Vulgard - His post are clear and thought-out, whenever it’s about map or read. Also gut
Firekitten - He is not trying to make some crazy plan or send people to their deaths. Think he is town here
Marshal - Based on his interactions with Magnus I will say he is town
Evil Ginger - His post feel really pure, as if he just type whatever he wanted to, this is mostly gut read. Also I like his post where he compares each player to cartoon/movie characters

holy shit why didn’t i notice this holy shit these seem so fucking forced /vote Boss

zero followup so far.

/vote Kai_5

Shame, I was townleaning Sogman.

@Emilia

/vote kai

@astand

/vote kai

@Hippolytus

@Kai_5 ur the leading wagon mate.

/vote Kai

@Andrej

/vote Kai

@Vulgard

This is going to become ‘nobody will build a wagon because everybody wants the hammer bonus’, isn’t it.

@Vulgard

/vote @Kai_5 why are you scum

I start a wagon… and they follow it.

@Alice

I volunteer to build the wagon. My hammer passive’s basically only useful later on.

/vote Kai_5

@astand

No, this is what it is going to be:

/unvote
/vote Kai

@Vulgard

Boss wagon went:

Luxy:

| Boss110 |Alice, astand, Kai_5, H_Hja, Marshal|5/12

Kai wagon went:

Solic -> Hja -> astand -> Hippo -> Andrej -> Vulgard -> Alice -> astand again after unvoting

Wagons build really quickly for some reason.
Observations:

Hja is just sheeping. Probably NAI for her but I always hate sheeping so Hja start voting independently I beg you. I think her voting was more independent last time I saw her townplay.
Astand is… also voting everything available. I don’t really get why. He might just be openwolfing. I’m increasingly tempted to have this vigged instead of Boss/Squid but I know vigging Boss/Squid is infinitely better.
Solic is interesting because Solic doesn’t seem to care about Boss but does care about Kai getting lynched. If Kai is town then the outlook is really bad for Solic, if Kai is scum then Solic is basically never scum.
Hippo can and will vote everything anytime so I won’t bother here.
Alice has explored a lot of wagons today and unless all of these wagons were town I don’t think that’s scummy. I want to see some flips on Alice wagons (especially Boss/Squid, preferably Boss because Squid claimed self-resolving - but since I think they TMI townread each other they might both be scum) to figure out her alignment this game. She’s done a lot of things that pinged me as scum but nothing that definitively locks her as scum for me.

/vote Hja

Why do you sheep? I know you can be more exploratory as town. Not really seeing that here.

And Vulgard tries to CFD with a very explainey post.

@Vulgard

The way Andrej is playing he only cares about hammering someone and little else.
I would say he’s lock neutral but in this setup I have no idea if he can be neutral (especially since Ginger claimed neutral by perspective before). You can call him a bad town but his mindset doesn’t even align with town’s win condition.
New take. He’s openwolfing scum.

/vote Andrej

If he was meming then I wouldn’t do this but he’s taking this seriously. What kind of town does all of these things:

• threatens shooting an innocent in case he doesn’t get hammer
• wants to get hammer above lynching scum
• has no reads and doesn’t want to make reads despite being encouraged to do so
• arrives in the thread almost exclusively to jump on a wagon or shade the person being wagoned
• never contributes anything of note

That’s not even bad play, that’s straight up scum-oriented play. And he gets away with openwolfing because of his reputation.
Kill this. Lynch this. Murder this with fire.

I’m used to lurkers and slankers but I’ve never seen a lurker or slanker with such an anti-town attitude. Not caring is typically towny but in this specific case he’s actively hurting town.

And the worst part is, if I’m right he’s going to fly UTR because nobody will expect him to openwolf like that. Of course he’s going to openwolf. I don’t think all scum are lurkers/slankers. He could’ve easily been coached like ‘you can do whatever and they will townread you for it because you’re actually doing something.’

There’s way too much here, way past ‘bad town.’ Just lynch this now. I’m 100% convinced this flips scum. And when it does, 100% there is scum in the top posters who told Andrej to act like this.

It’s so easy to go for LHF…

@Vulgard

Well first off I want more posts from him because he has really done a terrible job defending Sog’s slot, which is suspicious because I think Kai has to be a better player than Sog is.

I think if he’s town he should be capable of sorting out his slot. If he’s not I would just vig it.

Basically everything depends on how he plays throughout the rest of D1 and if he doesn’t fix anything he’s probably scum.

Kai is salvageable scumteam! Let’s do it. Doublekills!

@Vulgard

They really were.
I bet town!Kai knows this and will solve himself.

If he’s not town he’s going to fail

I didn’t even get to the whole overreaction to Alice… yeah I can see it. Vulgard is scum.

/vote Vulgard /vote Vulgard /vote Vulgard

[Emilia]

Why make iso on self resolving slot

[Firekitten]

Vulgard have you ever made a mistake as town. Important question, it can’t be a mistake in this game however.