FoL Feedback Thread

And before you start telling me that’s still too BD-sided

Remember

D1 reads are always social-only, so essentially random and likely a mislynch :slight_smile:

Right now, the Non-Revenant FoL winrate is 0%, or close enough to 0%

I say Non-Rev, as it would pretty much always win every game it was in, so not really a good metric for measuring the power of NKs.

I also say FoL, as SFoLs aren’t nessecarily FoL-Based.

The first suggestion is bad to me because you don’t solve town/scum-sided by introducing more 3rd parties. Games decided on the whims of neutrals aren’t perceived as fun. See for example the old ruins Mercenary I played, where I hard town sided.

I think the 2nd 2nd suggestion is too hardcore and making every investigative useless against the NK feels like too much. Currently no town invests can really redcheck a NK and scum invests can still find them. You can buff NKs individually, not necessarily this blanket buffing. I like the first suggestion though. I will say that I’ve seen NK come very close to winning in two FoL I ran and I won myself in a SFoL as NK that was really not that different from a FoL, so I don’t feel they need immense buffs.

3rd suggestion needs balance tweaks and just be called a Vampire. Choosing targets to keep alive from a lynch is a decent enough niche. It’s not wholly necessary without extra neut slots though.

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in 18p I think this works

aorn I prefer trying D1/17p and going from there

Day 1 Unseen lynch is pretty crippling… or day 1 NK lol.

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then git gud :sunglasses:

i don’t think allowing a lynch is a good idea before groupscum has a possibile chance to add a third member

i would oppose adding d1 lynch to FoL, and fiercely, forever

Would you do it for a…

Scooby snack?

Or SFoL 56, where kingmaker neuts that had all already won quite literally decided the game singlehandedly.

this is why i’m a proponent of killing neuts that in some way become guaranteed to win or guaranteed to lose before the end of the game

Would you kill a neutral that would guarantee your loss in a single game?

what im saying is if a neutral non-killer becomes guaranteed to win or guaranteed to lose before the end of the game, and that can never possibly change, the moderator should kill them at that time.

Should the winrate of NK be ignored?

it shouldn’t be
i created an alteration to its wincon to make it significantly easier to win in my Virtuous setup, which you should know.
I’m a proponent of that alteration to NK’s wincon across the board.

my opinion is that an NK should never need the help of kingmaker neuts to have a chance of winning.

You mean D2 or N1 :eyes:

To be honest, in tol I mostly win together with neuts as NK. They are just players you dont need to kill in order to make the game end, or they could explicitely side you.

it feels much more against the integrity of the game in FoL because of how much longer it is
i think? arete agrees with me? im pretty sure i remember us both strongly disliking kingmaker neuts completely deciding the game in SFoL 56

cc @Arete