Before we can even talk about how to balance NK, we first need to find out what it’s winrate should be on average. I personally propose 33% across the board for all factions (BD, Cultseen, NK). The reasoning behind this is that if any 2 people are in a competitive state to win, and only one of them can do as such, that they should have a baseline equal chance to win. However, skill does factor into this, meaning that yu might have a really lousy NK with only a 4% chance of winning, and a really strong Cultseen, with a 71% chance of winning. Now, we also have a semi-strong BD with a 28% chance of winning, however the skill level between the Cultseen and BD is very disproportionate.
i disagree somewhat, since the NK faction has much fewer members than the others
Still it should be at least 15%
The sole existence of Neutrals helps a lot. And believe me, its way better to win together with kingmaker neuts than to have no winchance at all like rn.
Why should fewer members mean less chance at winning? If I was by myself against 99 other people, but I had a nuclear bomb and hey had rocks, chances are that I would win a fight.
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that’s fair.
I prefer to not have to keep kingmaker neuts around, and that’s why I made NK’s wincon much easier to compensate in Virtuous.
To keep NK’s wincon as it is in FoL, kingmaker neuts must be allowed to stay.
so it’s okay with me is what im saying
since we’re trying to keep things similar in flavour to ToL as best we can.
Im not fully against your solution
Aka “if NK is in the final 5 he instantly wins”
But it has a kinda very gamey feeling… somehow it feels wrong.
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Also you’re right that that sort of endgame condition is extremely difficult to explain in terms of lore
I certainly haven’t thought about that part yet
Lore? What is lore? 
Ive never talked about lore, that comes always as last step I think, after you made all balance decisions already
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Lore is somewhat important to me lol
Although you’re right that balance is much more important
I personally think the two neut one neut/BD format might be a little much, but I’d welcome it.
Alternative: 1 guaranteed neut two neut or BD slots
The way to balance that is simple, The evil faction starts out with 3 members, 2 of them pre-chosen, and one of them randomly selected from the convertible BD to be converted into it’s converted role. The Faction converter can’t convert N1.
You’d just roll another slot
But that’s definitely a nerf in terms of player strength, even if it’s less fallible
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