FoL Feedback Thread

Icibalus · April 11, 2018, 3:53pm

lol vengeul survivors

Marluxion · April 11, 2018, 3:55pm

Yup. Before this, he had a psuedo retribution and he could choose his successor

Check the edit history on the class card thread if you don’t believe me lol

orangeandblack5 · April 11, 2018, 4:56pm

I remember picking a successor

But why the fuck do we have an obsession with the concept of punishing people for technically correct actions

Marluxion · April 11, 2018, 5:03pm

Like I said, lul
This is far less punishing now
It’s not even punishing if you think evils have a RB
Butler shouldn’t die from poisoning someone who sides with scum tho

Hippolytus · April 11, 2018, 5:13pm

Why don’t we just remove cowardly cuz they always side with BD anyway and it is not fun for anyone having a powerful king-making (literally when it chose it’s successor lol) neutral.

PokemonKidRyan · April 11, 2018, 5:46pm

Cowardly is good. It’s useful for the classes which become it. Working well overall

NightX · April 11, 2018, 6:19pm

Starting Cowardly should go.

Just fill the gap with more Good King so the king.

It’s just Good King Lite, and adds nothing.

Wolfy · April 11, 2018, 6:27pm

Least I managed to get that win with the new Cowardly then if that’s the case.

I liked it more than the old cowardly, and it actually means if bd screws over, they can’t rely on the king alot, which I don’t really like since its a case of, he didn’t get debted or protected, king is evil, getim sorta thing when everyone has mass claimed or forgets to do their actions

Hippolytus · April 11, 2018, 6:30pm

I mean remove cowardly starting.

Frostwolf103 · April 11, 2018, 6:38pm

So wait, from which classes can become Cowardly?

Unknown · April 11, 2018, 6:40pm

Alch

Hippolytus · April 11, 2018, 6:40pm

P much just alch isn’t it lol

Hippolytus · April 11, 2018, 6:41pm

Why don’t we just remove alchemist and cowardly in one sweep. ez.

Unknown · April 11, 2018, 6:41pm

sounds good

Whammerist · April 11, 2018, 6:51pm

Honestly just remove all classes, replace them with Citizen and Goon. wait

Unknown · April 11, 2018, 6:53pm

That idea is not coming from nowhere or without good reason, Whammerist.

Hippolytus:

Motion to drastically change or remove Alchemist:

The Alchemist
Neutral Support

Coagulate (Passive) - You are immune to bleeding and nightshade poison.

Stoneskin Potion (Day) - Make yourself night immune tonight - 3 uses

Crimson Potion (Night) - Heal a target player, preventing their death, curing any poison or bleeding. - Infinite uses

Emerald Potion (Night) - Poison a player, killing them. Immunity to nightshade poison does not protect a player from this attack. - 2 uses

Your objective is to survive.

Convert Immune

Alchemist has several problems inherrent within it’s design:

Too easy. Alchemists who claim D1 or D2 never ever ever lose. Literally never.
Too town-sided. Unlike every other Neutral, Alchemist in FoL has sided with BD almost every single time.
Following on from 3, Alchemist contributes to the “mass-claim D1” meta as it is essentially a town protective who can protect important town classes. Having too many protectives means town has nothing to lose from a mass-claim. This isn’t fun.
It is not fun for the Alchemist. If you claim early on like most people you are pushed to irrelevancy. Icibalus had a well-thought out post on SFoL13 saying something along the lines of “why should I not get to play or contribute just because I rolled Alchemist”. You have an incredibly small impact on the game. Rolling Alchemist is essentially being told “hey, I know you signed up for this game to play, but tough shit. At least you get a free win though, right?”
It is not fun for scum. Having a temporarily night immune, poison immune, bleed immune, healer- vigilante against you is not fair. Especially considering you know you can’t ever waste a night on the Alchemist due to the small chance he might side with you.
It is no fun for town. There is no deception or intrigue in claiming Alchemist as Alchemist, supporting town all game, and then backstabbing them for no reason. That is not skillful play, and it is not satisfying for anyone involved. Sure, Alchemist is clearly a very pro-town Neutral, but it is far less fun to interact with than the Mercenary for example.

There are so many interesting Neutral idea on the forums which Alchemist could be replaced with. It is not even that the idea of a Neutral with the Survive win-con is completely terrible - although it is boring it has some interesting potential. The problem arises from how unbelievably town-sided Alchemist is in FoL, how unfun it is for everyone involved, and how easy/boring it is to win by claiming Alchemist early on.

NightX · April 11, 2018, 7:46pm

Tbh Survival goal on a benign class is lame.

It’s more interesting with something like the Plague thing in some SFoL that finished before I arrived on the forums.

NightX · April 11, 2018, 7:46pm

Less hostile though, since that was super powerful

Hippolytus · April 11, 2018, 7:48pm

I 100% agree. I wouldn’t mind alchemist if it had some sort of twist to it’s wincon to force it to be less passive. Something like “be the only Support class left alive at the end of the game” would work. Anything that forces him to use bombs occasionally and not be a waste of space.

Unknown · April 11, 2018, 8:04pm

I mean, in TOL the swing is already enormous for BD,
and here too.

Compare this:
GK
10 BD
2 Alchemists
NK
2 Unseen
vs
GK
10 BD
2 Fools
NK
CL
random Cult