All will be revealed in time. It may be fun as hell, but it’s unhealthy for the game.
it’s unhealthy for the game.
It’s not unhealthy, whatever that means. The game is about social deduction and the Fool encourages it. “Is this guy acting evil because he’s evil or just wants us to think he’s evil?”
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Those are mutually exclusive hon, the Fool goes against social deduction. Is X being scummy, then lynch. YOU SHOULD ONLY BE WORRIED ABOUT A MISLYNCH.
This class should not be fool but a totally different class with a different name. I still think this ability is not right even if you make a different class.
I think this is a little overpowered in that everyone’s class will be known. Although it may stop the whisper king meta I think it should hear the first 4 whispers or the first x amount of whispers.
Fair you don’t give neutral a ability to hear whispers and expect it to work. You must give evils the abilty
The idea is that you are worried about Fool/Usurper selling out your info to evils in exchange for their vote.
Now, let me explain why Fool is a horrible class that adds no depth to the game and instead takes away depth.
The core of ToL is Deduction. Deduction through abilities, votes and how a player is acting. In the classic game of good vs evil, then you have to ask this of your reads on players: Is this realy correct? Am I being messed with by abilities or are my reads SIMPLY WRONG? The punishment for getting your facts wrong is executing BD. You’ve all seen plenty of BD kings acting very suspicious, and executed them for it. That was bad play by BD, and BD should be punished for playing incorrectly.
Now let’s think about a person who could be Fool. You’ve seen someone TB’d, so you know there is a Fool/Scorned, so you have to be wary of accusations. This is normal, being wary of false accusations is part of the classic gameplay. is the accuser an evil person trying to put us on the wrong track because they win if we do, or at least gain a significant benefit towards their wincon? Or are they genuinely trying to catch the evils.
A Fool acts like they are Unseen/Cult, it’s just natural. They can show up as evil to investigatives, and they are actively trying to get the good guys to think they are evil. Here’s where the problem lies. As of today, the Punishment for lynching a fool is far greater than the punishment for lynching BD. Now, that may not seem that bad! It may seem like that’s what is supposed to happen, town read this persson wrong, so they should be punisheed.
But, by definition, Fool is evil. They are screwing with the town, they are screwing with the investigatives, and are acting like a decoy for the evil characters. A good fool play is indistiinguishable from evil to everyone. If you accept Fool is an evil class that is against the good players due to their wincon, then why should you be punished for getting your reads correct? But that’s not all.
When you are on trial as a full evil member, someone might point out ‘Hey, he was acting like he was Evil! I bet he was Fool trying to act like evil!’. Now, this might sound fine, evils can escape from being executed. But then you reallise that acting like good is a lot harder than acting like obvious evil to get pardoned due to being Fool. Fool is a crutch to bad play, but in my opinion it works so effectively, and the idea of lynching a Fool terrifies BD so much, that nobody is going to bother acting like BD when they can just act like Fool. Sure, we have Prince, but once all BD killers are dead, suddenly the evils are rewarded for acting suspiciously.
In short, while I understand Fool as a crutch for bad play, it’s currently a crutch that’s better than walking, so how to fix it? The obvious step is to remove the crutch and force evils to act like they aren’t, blending in to the crowd rather than with the madmen. I’d say that a game without Fool would be a lot more interesting in terms of day phases for everyone.
But that’s unlikely to happen, because removing an entire class, which, while admittedly fun to play as is actually making BD more and more passive for every patch it stays in the game, even then it won’t be removed, because it’d get such a hhuge backlash. So, either you overhaul the class completely, to keep the art, name and lore, which is what I’ve done, and also to solve the whisper King meta, or…
You nerf the penalty for executing fool. I propose that we try a patch in which the penalty for lynching Fool is gone. We will test to see how the meta is afterwards, and if we like it then Fool stays as a slight niggling doubt in the back of the mind, and the real threat is lynching BD, or if we don’t like it we make BD far too passive out of fear of lynching someone who is acting suspicious as evil.
Thank you.
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Also I’m changing the Fool/Usurper class have a look at the changes. Unsen/Cult whispers have been removed.
Fool definitely needs not to screw with investigatives.
It should be getting themselves lynched with their words, not making Sheriffs/Paladins do their work for them.