I think King needs some kind of rework

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Tl;Dr king is far too swingy with how powerful he is and it’s nearly impossible to determine his faction before he makes a move or reaper kills him. He is also currently far too powerful when an evil king.

So it’s been a good bit since king was given order execute, and I think I believe that it has brought out all the problems that we currently have with King and what can be done.

Before order execute, we had Allies. Now a lot of people remember that being a bad time, as it was a pure faction check from a known source. Meaning barring a frame, whatever the long found you as, that was it. That’s created a huge problem for neutrals, so we attempted a king with checking for royal blood. This led to king being useless and a meta of constantly executing the king. We went back to allies, and now we have order execute plus 6 total guards for the king. What I have found was important from allies is that due to the faction check, it was possible to deduce if a king was evil or not by what he came up with. This led to an evil king needing to be pro active or else he’ll be hung. This is where the whisper meta came in since allies was gone. It is currently the only way to tell a king’s faction, since a bd king can use the information to win. This has also amplified a problem I had with evil king for a long time, which was find the prince and kill him somehow. With the order execute, this gave him an extra opportunity.

And this brings together the main problem with king: the percentage he can be either side. I think no matter what, as long as the king is as powerful as he is, having him potentially being on either side makes the game super swingy. With 6 guards, no one except butler and reaper can actually kill him. This leads to unseen, cult, and nk needing to slow the game down until king is out of guards, but the slower the game, the more information gets passed around, which is also detrimental to evil factions. This basically has just turned the game into “hope king is on my side” for everyone with no real way to figure it out, especially since there is a big push to out the whisper meta.

Suggestions temporarily removed. Mainly just remove order execute and nerf guard numbers.

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#2

Only skimmed but I think you just saved me from writing this exact same post

Will read in full soon™

#3

He said get rid of decide fate No

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#4

I agree that DF is cool, but there are a lot of good reasons to consider nerfing the King a lot.

Although I like DF, he has valid points.

You don’t want to lock onto one part of the post and ignore the rest.

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#5

If BD let the prince get on stand

There own fault lul

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#6

That is true; DF on Evil King is currently one of the game’s most effective deterrants to VFC.

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#7

I didn’t lock into one threat I am on moblie so I can’t quote easily

#8

He also said no evil kings

#9

No evil King = whisper meta.

However, EK is super swingy. It’s an extra super powerful Unseen.

King definitely needs to be rethought. I think we need to look at the arguments here, and not the suggestions.

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#10

I would like to mention, if it wasn’t clear, that if there is no evil starting king, I want starting king to not be able to whisper or receive whispers. I thought I mentioned it, and I’ll try to be more clear about it.

I can see the argument for decide fate, but in my time playing, I rarely see that come into play. Bd rarely get use of it, and I’ve yet to see anyone afraid to vote up anyone the king calls out as “evil” which is why I dislike it so much. If the desire to keep it is there, I understand but again, experience says otherwise.

#11

Then people would guard king always

In a game of deduction… confirm not good

#12

Perhaps, but this king is nerfed to not be useful. Along with he has guards to protect himself, while knights and physicians leave other bd out to potentially die. Also if you guard as knight, you could kill a bd controlled by possessor, or physician could miss a night healing poison/ bleed.

I don’t think only bd king is necessarily correct, but I wanted to present it as an option. I think it still remains current king is an issue, and we should think of something to solve it so most games aren’t decided purely by the king.

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#13

Simple way: bring down amount of guards from 6 to 4 again, make em more strategic

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#14

I think
King is fine right now

#15

That’s definitely in the right direction, but king still holds to many great abilities, that it’s almost impossible to determine he’s evil until he’s already struck. By then it’s too late, he’s killed a bd power class, and now you have to waste a day executing him, giving evil a free night to kill/ convert. Which is something that is completely missing when there is a good king, which means the games are still just as swingy based completely on the the percentage of what faction the king is.

#16

I am sorry but by my calculation sirs as I say in a nerdy voice

Cult/Unseen win rates drop to about 1 percent

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#17

Tho on the plus side NK win rates go up to 2 percent :slight_smile:

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#18

The reason king got more guards was cause he lost allies it was to help king out

#19

My Solution:

Remove Order Execution and reduce Guards to 4. I think that’s a sufficient nerf.

#20

If that happens, I feel that Decide Fate should increase to 2 uses.

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