My Unseen is garbage so I’m just gonna out them all since they are so bad that they will be caught soon enough anyways. They have already pissed me so much with their shitty plays. So let’s get to it: Arete is MM, Amelia is Assassin, Jgoes is EK.
For some reason, Arete decided to vote innocent on the Prince even though we had majority. This is so fucking dumb and I don’t need to explain why.
Also, this guy claimed Doctor, clearly they didnt read the OP.Amelia thought it would be cool if she claimed Paladin and found the confirmed Tavernkeeper as Cult. Well news flash, kid, 3 Sheriffs already came out and no one would believe you.
And Jgoes … the EK. This guy manages to Grand Trial Prince, and then starts signalling super hard at Arete for no reason, which made it obvious they were both scum.
Good job Unseen. Anyways they deserve this so I’m outting them. Good luck BD.
This was hilarious.
I am very much a fan of keeping it as a Firebrand-style kill
The lack of leeway is intentional and promotes thinking more about who you mark
the class of archer appears to me like it’s goal is to just get a lot of kills then become an anti-death immunity dispenser.
also the idea that you could mark a mystic or anyone who is confirmed and then you now waste two nights of them while a sheriff or a phys could get a lot more work those two nights I take as a flaw.
firebrand is good, but it wouldn’t be as strong as a lot of the other classes here are. Take Knight, who is a vigilante but also a protective. Also im not a big fan of Firebrand so im bias
Originally the “anti-death immunity dispenser” part was much simpler - the ability to just kill one person through immunity. I think that worked a lot better than niche combo potential with another BD Killer.
I don’t… think I’ve ever seen an Archer multishot. The closest thing was Emilia in Clash of Cults, when she had 2 (3?) people marked and triggering the multishot would’ve killed all remaining scum. But she didn’t need to, because Hunter!Magnus + Drunk!Arete yeeted the wolf anyway.
Not sure if it’s the fault of the class/setup design, though. Maybe the players aren’t bold enough…?
Clearly Archer is more or less designed as a town arsonist (firebrand), but I’ve never seen anyone actually ignite, if that makes sense. I do wonder why.
I get its a killer class
but I do wish that the class had more potential then just kill as many people as you can
I wanted to exploit its support-type in bullseye
though there are probably better angles to push, I thought the way to go is make it a bit more supportive as a debuffer(as per the occupation/redirection removal)
It was probably simpler
but then its literally just for KP, no utility
I want it to have some utility, or something to do besides just kill people
giving it some utility or supporting power in a trade for being able to kill a lot of players
maybe its just me but the firebrand bit of it feels…wrong
rather have it less focused on getting to kill 3 people
In other words
Having a BD Killer that focuses on kills is perfectly sensible
If it really needs a buff try removing guilt, should help empower it to sift through slankers and CWs and the like, but don’t get boxed in by the idea that everything needs to cover at least 4 bases
1 Like
lets take archer specifically
it spends most of the game doing next to nothing(marking) then, if(and big if) its marks and itself makes it to end-game, itll get 3 kills and then becoming basically a VT
I think it should be buffed by making it do something else at the same time as marking.
My suggestion I don’t think was a good enough rework to call complete but I do think its better then current archer. It keeps the KP, but your not tied down by early game decisions. It also makes it so you are doing something before you start shooting, and allows you to start shooting earlier(least I think so)
your suggestion is that is should stay more focused on killing, and that if a buff is necessary, remove guilt. I disagree with this take. Ill first go over the guiltless part then the killing part.
Making Archer guiltless would, as I assume, just to kill the PoE faster, kind of like bounty. However, it would make this class instantly confirmable just like noble and at least I wouldn’t want another confirmable role, particularly a killer class that is usually an easy fakeclaim. Also would make it a better knight. While Knight can guard, I imagine if you could kill every night it would be better still and by a lot. The only exception I can see to this is a unique Archer but id rather not have uniques.
Focusing more on killing on a BD role seems hard to keep not OP but still to par with other classes. A thought that crossed my mind was making multishot disable guilt for the night, but then the problem of early-mid game just placing marks still exists. Maybe solved if two marks every night? If I was forced to keep Archer focused as killer-like, it might look something like this:
Ranger
Blue Dragon Killer
Multi-shot (Day) - If you fire an arrow at one of your marks tonight, Eagle Shot cannot be disabled tonight and you can choose to discard two marks to shoot at an additional player. Discarding marks is resolved before the shot. - 2 uses
Eagle Shot (Night) - Fire an arrow to kill your target. All of your abilities are disabled if you kill a member of BD with it. If you are shooting a mark, this attack will be unhealable. - Infinite uses
Bulls-eye (Night) - Place two marks on target players. A marked player is no longer passively death immune. You may have up to three marks. Targeting a marked player with this ability will remove the mark. Targeting yourself will remove all marks. Marks disappear on death or class change. - Infinite uses
Your objective is to defeat the Unseen or Cult, and any Neutrals that seek to do you harm.
admittedly this ^^^ might be a little too buffed because you can kill 5 town before your abil gets disabled(with the new multi-shot maybe make it a desperado?) but I think id always have bullseye place two marks but minimize the effectiveness of the marks with a killer-focus archer. This minimized what a waiting game it is at the start, and while it does lower the amount of KP archer can do in 1 night, overall it kills more. It keeps that archer has to kill their marks, but not all of their marks, so keep that n1 marked mystic alive but you still have to kill that phys you weren’t sure about.
the problem again with guiltless is mech confirmable(since 3+ deaths per night) but im not exactly sure how to work around that while keeping it a killer-focus. The way that comes to mind is ‘Firebrand’ but Firebrand is somewhat useless early game and current archer doesn’t usually make it to 3 marks as-is but a buff to make it more fire-brandy might itch into the should-be-unique category. Would like to see how you would take on that. The other way is making the guilt-less be something like a 1 time use, which could be done, but then it would be less killer focused as to give something to do when not using that 1 time use.
the more I write these the more I see why I get accused of IIoA
I…Think that was all?
two questions to end it(to orange, but anybody feel free to answer)
- Do you think Archer needs a buff or a rework?
- What would your change look like?
whoopsie I forgot to write a conclusion
I think that a killer-focused archer wouldn’t fit because its either too confirmable, too strong, or takes too long to be useful for BD. Particularly with the current version, it takes too long and, in the end, feels like its spending the game waiting to get a triple kill and disable all its abilities. I think making the killer bit of it still key to the class, but itching into the support category a bit with debuffs with its Bulls-eyes is the way to go.