Minor suggestion for Possessor

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#21

Technically there are situations where you can.

But never mind that, stalemates do need auto resolution. The timeout exists because you can’t rely on finding every possible situation, and you can imagine a situation in which progress is possible but no one wants to do it.

So with Poss v MM the MM will die sooner or later, but stalemate resolution still makes sense because it could possibly take an absurdly long time.

CL v Prince needs a stalemate resolution because they literally can’t end the game without leaving even if they coordinated

Ect ect.

#22

Technically there are situations where you can.

A few yes but the fact it isn’t all of them means you can’t auto-resolve all poss v mm situations

#23

Sure you can. No matter what the MM believes it doesn’t magically give him a 3rd option besides either using dirty works and not using dirty works.

#24

yes you are right I misunderstood. i still disagree with giving poss win tho

#25

why?

Losing because of a technicality as Poss is extremely frustrating, waiting out the timer is boring for everyone (including spectators) and the only motivation for the MM to even stall the game out to that point anyways is because of spite.

It’s not fun, it’s not logical and it’s certainly not fair considering the amount of effort it takes to get to that point as NK.

#26

if poss lost its bc he played bad and shoulda got mm exed earlier

likewise mm played bad and shoulda got poss exed earlier

they both played bad so they both should lose.

if they feel frustrated well live and learn lol

nk being underpowered can be solved in better ways than allowing them to win without fulfilling their clearcut stated win condition

and it’s perfectly logical unlike your position which is based on … the feeling of frustration

#27

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

Staying out until the end in this stalemate, I wouldn’t say that either of them played badly. Mastermind however more so than Possessor, because they are part of a main faction. Just having both lose will feel frustrating and having an endgame situation where your players expected feeling is frustration… is from a game developers standpoint uhhh…?

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#28

do you want to add a bunch of exceptions to the possessor’s win condition? i don’t want to see:

Goal: Defeat the Blue Dragon and Unseen/Cult.*
*You win if you and the Mastermind are the last alive.†
†Unless you are bleeding.

it’s giving poss a free win and i dont like it anymore than i did when he auto-won vs king

#29

…all of the logic I have stated regarding the payouts of the masterminds and possessors possible actions leading to an inevitable possessor win without auto resolution in play.

The only reason we need an auto resolution at all is because if the Mastermind is stubborn he can delay his loss as long as he feels like which no one wants to be forced to sit through.

#30

This is not an exception to the possessors wincondition. It’s just skipping to the part where he inevitably achieves it.

If he’s bleeding or snared then he won’t inevitability achieve it so there is no need to resolve anything since he hasn’t won yet. But if he isn’t then his win is a matter of when and not if, the game just refuses to wait for the MM to turn to Assassin and eventually just says “fuck it this is taking too long you all lose because fuck you”.

#31

Not free. Getting to that point is hard

#32

his goal is defeat unseen, the mm surviving means the unseen aren’t defeated, he will not “inevitably win” as long as the mm is alive and the mm drawing the game out isn’t an excuse to give poss the win, that just means both parties should be able to agree to a draw, a quality of life feature that has nothing to do with balance

#33

That “quality of life” feature is the only thing standing between the Possessor and Winning.

The Mastermind can stall sure, but only an auto resolution can actually make him lose.

And if you contest that he will not inevitably win then tell me. Without auto resolution what alternative conclusion is there?

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#34

It’s not even like it would be the only example of this. Like I said 3 Unseen vs a Sheriff will auto resolve into an Unseen win. Probably because otherwise they could let the Sheriff lynch an Unseen and then convert him for an undeserved win for the sheriff.

#35

And if you contest that he will not inevitably win then tell me. Without auto resolution what alternative conclusion is there?

draw … like there is now

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#36

The only way for a draw to occur without auto resolution is a wipe out.

How is the Mastermind supposed to Kill the Possessor in order for this to happen.

#37

4 nights is a reasonable lenght of time to auto draw

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#38

So? It’s still auto resolution and thus doesn’t help us figure out what auto resolution should do.

That’s like if the game auto resolved with an Unseen win and my argument for not changing that was “because that’s what happens in that situation”.

#39

4 nights is practically equivalent to infinite nights

#40

It’s not.

Let’s look at a different situation:

CL no bleeds + Any 2nd cult vs Prince no exe’s + Butler

For one reason or another everyone here has perfect information about the situation, or at least close enough that the Butler/Prince know to coordinate locking down the CL.

Butler occupies the CL 3 times
Prince jails the CL once
The game draws.

Without auto resolution this would be a Cult victory after 7 nights.

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