I think it was p dumb for you to vote your partner instead of me as well ngl because not only will it not give you the towncred you want but you’re also losing someone whos pretty fucking good as a scumbud
we should honestly just vote manti and end the day
@Arctic @sulit
are we waiting for anything in particular
The Maple LyLo Special: Shitass Hydra Edition
I will be listing points in order here. First, why Min is obviously a wolf. Second, why Min and Marl are obviously teamed. Third, why I’m obviously a villager. Finally, I will conclude with some closing statements about the rest of the game.
If I’m once again mislynched for the lose, so be it. I actually tried, unlike most of the other players in this game.
Min is obviously a wolf
Scroll up, right to the top of the page. Then, look at “Frequent Posters”. If you look, you will see that – somehow – Min has over three hundred posts in this thread. Why, then, are they so low impact? Why are their posts so unmemorable and so devoid of game progression? Lets take a quick look.
This is Min’s first read of the game. Pretty basic stuff, “this player dies a lot so we should give them some time”. What stands out is
[quote=“min, post:146, topic:85540”]
primarily we will figure out his alignment over more than one day[/quote]
Lets put a pin in this for now.
Min makes some more posts, mostly just chatter and talking about how dead the game is. Fair enough, not much was going on.
This is their next real game related post. More eli talk. Moving on.
It’s around here where people (me and sulit mostly, I believe) begin going in on Min, pointing out that the read is pretty basic and really not great.
We get pretty caught up in this idea, but I’d again like to point out: this wasn’t the criticism levied, it was more of a comment on “why should we give Eli more time when their posts are dogshit?” This sort of strawmanning will become a pattern.
This is when things start happening: Night begins to get pressured, and Min and Marl place their votes one after another.
Here is the rational:
More or less “thread b player said thread b half was wolfy”, they aren’t really giving out a fleshed out case or anyhting of that sort. What I originally found interesting about this fact is the juxtaposition between this Night push and the other pushes and shields min was giving. It was a lot weaker, and without as much rational.
For example, see the above: its an actual read with something actually happening in it. The reason to village read bliz? While questionable, there are actually words involved at the very least.
[quote]To be clear with Eli
Are you doing it out of pity because they keep getting MLed?
If you think we should think before voting him or find a new way to read him why aren’t you doing it yourself?
Do you think someone getting mled a lot is a valid reason to not lynch them?[/quote]
This post from Sulit questioning Min about the eli read, the response:
We can see already that min is backing out of the Eli defense, while still calling it a village read despite previously presenting it as a “I don’t want to kill this player in specific early for NAI reasons”. This inconsistency is constant.
This is the rational for the village read. The issue? I literally just got out of a game with Min and Eli, and I can say with complete certainly that neither player played at all like they did in the JOAT game. This is, simply put, a lie.
When further pressured by sulit, min simply breaks it down to “because I said so”. There is no rational, there is no reasoning, it just is. Similar to what the Night read ultimately boiled down to.
Based
This is yet more setup for the later inevitible betrayal of Eli.
Now, I’m going to stop quoting every single min post on the matter because I think the point is clear: Min was defending Eli for little to no reason, while keeping the door open to flip the read around at any time. Meanwhile, they had an all but naked vote on Night, and gave a couple nothing village reads on a few slots.
For a villager with the most posts in the game, this is pretty lackluster stuff.
The read on Eli is forced, the read on Night doesnt exist, and they aren’t particularly progressing the game, instead using the majority of their posts to retort small arguments made against their posts. This is classic wolf agenda in action.
This is classic wolf phrasing. It’s a type of AtE and I bet min isn’t even consciously doing it. It’s actually a very interesting strategy. Its about shifting the emotional burden of an argument onto the other party, thereby allowing you to take the moral highground even if you don’t deserve it (I use this sometimes by using phrases like “youd have to think im an idiot to do…”).
Simply put, this response to the Sulit post is bad. Sulit’s post, as I’ve pointed out, is a pretty fair critisism of Min’s posting so far d1, and this response spins it as if sulit is tunneling min for no reason.
This is what wolves do.
This selfmeta is what originally had me go in on Min in earnest. If you read through it, this is describing their play this game to a T. And what’s funny is that they don’t even realize it. This is a very common blunder in newbie wolves, since theyre worse at introspection. They say what they think their wolf game is, when in reality that is what their wolf game is, if that makes sense.
Again, this is when Min started to get more heat, because they made bad posts and bad reads.
When I point out that Min is playing a lot like this, this is the response an this is what I’m talking about. This stuff just isn’t strictly true. It isn’t far from reality, but it doesn’t line up. Again, typical newb wolf mistake. I’ve seen it a thousand times lol.
Again, what I was talking about before. Strawman. Moving the burden. This is typical stuff.
Again. The. Exact. Same. Thing.
I think yall get the point. Moving on.
So, back to talking about the push on Night, there isn’t really much of a reason why given. If you check, they have some other posts that say ghana is pushing the eli slot in the other thread, and not much talk about whats going on with Night. There just isn’t much about Night here, and thats the problem. We had paragraphs, and paragraphs, and paragraphs of defending a bad Eli read that immediately got ditched, but nothing on the person they’re trying to kill? This is just what wolves do when they want to setup for later without getting too much dirt on them.
That’s it for d1.
Moving on to d2.
We start out strong, with a "I would never make that kill " post.
The first read given d2. Right off the hop, they go from “give eli a pass because pity or something” to “eli has to die today”.
Immediately, Kyo and I notice this and start going ham on her. Word of the day: opportunistic.
I lead the day pushing Eli, after having pushed them d1 and lamenting Night dying because thread b wagoned Vul, and when I see Min pushing Eli I just get a massive ping. The turnabout doesn’t make sense.
First of all, this is blatantly a lie. They explicitly said that they townread eli. For some far-off, nebulous reason. Something about Meta? Something about them never having any posts? Something about them always getting mislynched? Hmm, hard to remember, maybe in this very post I quoted those posts?
If you go back and read the context, Kyo and I basically destroy this point from Min. Nothing changed between d1 and d2 regarding Eli. They were still their inactive, useless self and didnt actually post anything of value d1 or d2. So this rational for a heelturn just rings hallow and opportunistic. This is what they had been planning the entire time.
When asked to point out specifically what posts changed their mind (this means: what posts made them a village read and what posts made them a wolf read) min refuses and calls it a waste of time. Really? You want to just lynch them without reading their posts? Tell me more
Again, this is just “I am no logner defending them so I’ll follow the push on them” wolf mentality. Min is newbie who probably doesnt have the experience needed to come up with a more nuanced progression than this lol
I mean, its cute that they’re trying this and all, but its just so blatantly wolfy.
They are using their reason to not vote eli d1 and applying it as a reason to kill them d2. It’s absolute nonsense.
Classic “victim blame the mislynch for being mislynched” and then applying the exact same logic for mislynching the mislynch to mislynch a mislynch. I mean, hello?
Anyway
Back to Kyo
This is the response to Kyo’s case on Min, and the beginning of their war. Like I said, the criticisms against Min are completely reasonable. Min is refusing to elaborate on their reads, and is moving their vote in way that really deserves an explanation. When you refuse to explain yourself, you get voted. How is that shade?
Again, as I literally just quoted, this is blatantly untrue and completely misrepresents the situation. They refused to give the progression and called it a waste of time. They use this proclaimed shade to springboard an OMGUS push onto the Kyo slot, and spends the day battling the now-flipped JK.
The ol’ “accuse your opposition of openwolfing for calling you a wolf, OMGUS for a free win” strat. mmmexcelent.
Min proceeds to do acounter ISO of Kyo and calls everything they’re doing wolfy and shade, and that Kyo is a confirmed wolf that must die. This is OMGUS on the basis that Kyo is making a very reasonable case against their slot. I mean, I don’t have to explain how often newer wolves resort to omgus lol
Again, selfmeta xd
The whole defence against pressure this game falls into two categories: OMGUS or self-meta.
Now, to avoid getting bogged down commenting on every post between Min and Kyo, I’m going to move on. I believe the point has been made.
Moving on to d3.
Lets skip to the juicy bits.
So lets break this down. Sulit and I are Discussing whether or not I should vote. I want to vote because I’m an impatient bitch. Sulit says “no lets use your time”. We are literally discussing voting with the implication of locked votes and all that jazz. Min’s post here implies that they have just read the current discussion too. How, then, does Min not realize votes are locked? My guess? Min was coached into voting. They were probably told “just derp it lol no one will care”. Lock things in, start the 1v1, whatever happens happens.
Their play this game, start to finish, has been just normal newbie wolf making easy pushes all day every day. Any time they’re pushed, they respond with AtE and omgus. Whenever they’re asked to explain their reads, they refuse. Whenever they push someone, there is 0 depth.
Min is an obvious wolf.
[center]
INTERMISSION
[/center]
So, I’m obviously a fan of Maple the Catgirl. I think she’s pretty cute, and I like her character design in general. My issue is that the setting is pretty shit. I really hate how they treat the characters. Honestly, the setting seems pretty ableist and constantly degrades the characters. Pretty sad iyam. I did quite a bit of research into things like feline psychology to attempt to do some writing of my own, and that shit is actually pretty interesting. Did you know that feline autism is a thing? Honestly, I never actually thought about it until I read about it. From what I can tell, its somewhat rare, but obviously its a spectrum. We used to have a cat which was a rescue and it had some weird tendencies. Think she might have had some sort of similar neurological condition, maybe.
Anyway, I’m just writing this little intermission for the sake of flow and spacing. If you read this far, you deserve a break. Go get some water, a snack, and come back after. Godspeed o7
[center]
INTERMISSION
[/center]
Min and Marl are Obviously Teamed
So, here’s where our journey begins again. It’s d2. Kyo is asking Marl to come vote Min. Remember, Min has had some pretty bad posts, and Marl is a pretty good player. So, what happens?
I would say this is a somewhat reasonable stance to have, since Eli really didnt do anything to deserve not to die.
Hmm, perhaps it gave us all a headache. Yes, I can see this as a reasonable response.
Indeed, werewolf makes me want to quit the internet forever too sometimes.
BUT WHAT’S THIS? REAL SHIT?
Indeed, this is real shit.
At this point, we know its impossible for Actric to be a wolf unless this is the world’s slowest roll. So that means this is a v/w situation, and Marl is saying that he’s always killing Eli first. This is super common thing wolves do, they take their partner and a wolfy village and say “this is w/w, lets kill X first.” Then, you kill X and say "oh heck, guess we better reevaluate :))))) ".
This response is hedgy, doesn’t address the case against Min at all, and in fact shields Min from future pushes by forcing “”“reevaluation”"" after a miss.
Worse is this, (both of you being Kyo and Min in this context). Marl is basically saying he’s down to kill 2 people before killing Min. At the time, we had 1 mislynch available. Yeet tro, yeet Eli, lose the game. Bam bam bam, ez wolf win, fireworks, all that jazz.
At this point, Marl is pretty frozen. They don’t post much, they aren’t pushing much, and I know theyre a good player from their time on MU.
This is a very similar narrative to the one that Min has been pushing as well. "Eli must die, but maybe eli can post well enough to not die 
At this point, Min and Marl are doubleteaming this misyeet-misyeet chain, and prepping us for a losing lylo.
Moving on to what is an even more damning interaction between the two:
So. This… trap. Doesn’t exist? Call me crazy, but this is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen in my entire life. This is so obviously a fake “trap”, and it doesnt make any sense for Marl to even think this let alone do this. This is just the fakest theatre I have ever seen, to the point of being honestly comical.
The dynamic I imagine these two having is “wise old man coaches newbie min to a victory” sort of deal. Many of min’s maneuvers are somewhat sloppy but have some sort of an idea there. It looks like Marl is backseating from wolf chat here. From the fake ass derps, to the mech takes, to the overall strategy that I’ve been pointing out this entire post.
It’s very, very clear that it’s just those two.
Why Maple is an Obvious Villager
Lads, its been a long game. Its had its ups and downs. Mostly downs, honestly. In fact, I’ve hated this game. It hasn’t been fun. Its been hard. It’s been frustrating. It’s been just bad. I’ve hated the lynches, I’ve hated being ignored, I’ve hated how suboptimal everything feels.
But at the end of the day, here we are in f5. I have two wolves voting me (by virtue of the game having not ended). I can see the finish line. Either I convince yall that I’m a villager, or we lose again. It’s that simple.
Really, its that simple lol
Now, I probably don’t look great. I pushed Eli all game. I pushed Min as well, but they’re unflipped and from ya’ll’s PoV their alignemnt isn’t confirmed yet. I get that.
But lets just take a quick stroll through how this game has been from my perspective.
Day one, we start strong. I have two big suspects: Min and Eli. I push both. Min has bad responses to me, Eli goes Afk. I’m feeling good. My pushes feel right.
We come time to EoD, and thread b desides to kill vul. I honestly don’t even remember why at this point. All I remember is being pissed of.
Vul dies. VT. Darn.
Day two.
I continue to push Eli, who just ghosts the game. Min heelturns onto Eli. Their posts are awful. I point that out. I vote them, push them, Kyo joins me, it looks like we gottem. Min cannot defend both of us, and it looks like we got the yeet in our grasp.
Eli subs out, Arctic subs in. Tro’s second half fakeclaims cop or some shit and gets sussed for it. I don’t know why, I don’t know why, and honestly I don’t even want to know.
But fuck, looks like tro’s other half is getting yeeted. Well, guess we have to yeet tro too. This fucking sucks. Min and Actric are slipping away, and there’s nothing we can do.
My one ally in the thread? Kyo, who has been pushing the same reads as me all game.
Night falls, Kyo is shot, flips jk. This is so sad, alexa play despacito.
Its just me, in lylo, after two lynches I had 0 control over. I need to find the last two wolves. I go ham on Actic and Min, trying to figure out if they’re w/w or if sulit/marl has a wolf. I iso sulit, they look good. I iso marl, they look aight. My brain is very large and has many folds, did I find both wolves?
Sulit claims parity cop with a green on Actric. This makes no sense in a 9er, I push on sulit to force them to rescind if theyre FPSing or some shit. They stand firm. Fuck it, maybe mist put a cop in this setup or some shit, who knows.
That means either sulit/arctic is the team or its min and marl. (Or marl/sulit or min/sulit but I quickly said those worlds dont make sense).
I begin ISOing all four players, I reread the game, I go through the posts.
I find it.
Sulit and arctic doesn’t make sense as a team, they must be villagers. I want to finally, finally kill Min.
I ask, can I vote? No, you may not.
I am snap voted by Min.
The game doesn’t end.
I’m a fucking genius, I have them now. This is easy. Marl and Min begin posting some distancing, then go AFK. Out of hte blue, a couple hours later, Marl votes me. Says they dont care which goes over first but would rather f3 vs min rather than me. lol okay buddy
I have them. Both wolves on me. The game is locked. It’s that easy.
All thats left to do is convince sulit and actric im a villager
I begin writing this post
It takes a while and I’m losing my goddamn mind
fuck it
i start defending myself, we reach the end of the wall
but in the end, there’s no more salt
im not mad anymore
i tried my hardest, and if we lose, so be it. it’s out of my hands now.
Now, its up to everyone else to find me as a villager. Curtains close. I take a bow. And I fall asleep, never to be seen again.
In summation
fuck me im tired i believe in you no need to apologize if wrong
yall got this
1 Like
actually min does this like in every game
it’s NAI
i’m pretty sure if they were teammates min wouldn’t have pointed out they voted right after each other…
weren’t you previously just saying all of min’s reads were shit? lol
uh
that’s a bit oxymoronic
this stuff is NAI for min
i’d appreciate if you didn’t include useless shit in the wallpost because it’s already incredibly long, thanks
okay but why would you not have pushed min then
if min was pushing eli and you’re saying it’s opportunistic, why would you push eli with them instead of just going after min? surely it isn’t because you’re saving them for a buss in lylo?
tbh i agree with this
i agree with you min is a wolf, so i don’t really know why i’m reading this section
i just don’t think you aren’t a wolf
but he said he was staying on eli before this anyway… so you’re failing to recognise that this was actually just town sticking to their vote
admittedly that entire interaction did look very fake lmao
so what happened with night? what was the push there? why did you omit this?
okay saying everyone/everyone is a scumteam isn’t very useful lmao
why not
lol
@Maple your wall is bullshit and your points are old and already debunked
go back to lolcatting, you’re pretty good at it 
literally went from lolcatting to making a case and trying your hardest to change the meaning of what my posts mean. Fyi maple it’s easy to tell when you’re writing massive paragraphs over a one-liner I posted.