Nothing should be a weaker version of anything else.
You say that but its not there…
Also why does this list exist seperatily from the mega rework?
It’s there, just reload.
This is a second version of it, since a lot of the classes aren’t great on further examination. Also this is about reworking classes, instead of types.
It’s a replacement mostly.
Sorcerer (Neutral Killer)
Passive: Mage Armor: Immune to death at night, occupation, target changing, poison and bleeding.
Passive: Rivalry: Your primary ability has a one day cool down until the other Neutral Killer dies.
Day Ability: Power Shot: Magic Magic Missile bypasses immunity tonight. 3 uses.
Day Ability: Magic Cloak: You will appear to be not magic to the Inquisitor, and as Blue Dragon. 2 uses.
Night Ability: Magic Missile: Fire a magic missile at a player, killing them. If you fail, you do nothing. If you use while on Cool down, learn the player’s class type. Unlimited uses.
Night Ability: Circle of Death: Everyone visiting target player will die, bypassing Immunity 2 uses.
Inquisitor (Neutral Killer)
Passive: No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!: You are immune to death poison, and bleeding, and your visits don’t count as visits.
Passive: Rivalry: Your primary ability has a one day cool down until the other Neutral Killer dies.
Day Ability: Find Magic: Find out if someone is a magic user at the start of the night. Unlimited uses. Magic users are:
- Psychic/Ilusionist
- Priest/Soulcatcher
- Court Wizard/Sage
- Sorcerer
- Paladin
- Princess/Duchess
Day Ability: Holy hand grenade:Target player will die at the end of the next night. Bypasses everything except healing. Does not notify the target. 2 uses.
Night Ability: Ruthless Efficiency: Kill a target. Cool down does not trigger if you kill a magic user. Unlimited uses.
Note: Sorcerer/Inquisitor would have Reaper/Possessor win condition, and become the Psycho King.
This should be in the OP
This still feels redundant. The master rework thread may be ORGANIZED by type but it is still a rework of individual classes.
1 Like
This doesn’t add new classes, for one.
This is to clean up, and it’s easier to start a new thread then remove half the stuff on the old thread.
What situation is noble twins more useful than political pressure? Compare that to Private Matters.
On trial.
I’d say both have their uses.
Political Pressure must be used on someone who isnt already voting the person up, however, so in that sense it’s weaker than the Royal Finger, but it can also cancel the vote as well.
Still, I think Noble should only have one or the other.
So…
- Political Pressure
- Noble Twin
0 voters
If you have an Aristocrat or an Apostle (or a sufficiently informed BD with a noble) then you are using vote manipulation either to prove (something which should not be made easy.) Or to sway a trial.
However most days don’t start on trial and people don’t put people on trial if they think they are in the same Faction.
Let’s first look at a similar Ability. Royal finger.
An evil king gets 2 accusations on a single person. Decide fate doesn’t really matter here as you don’t start with someone on trial.
4 Unseen (wth king) vs 5 BD. Majority here is 5.
Kings vote counts for 2 so a BD is put on the stand.
Now it’s 4 Vs 4 with a BD on the stand. However the second vote doesn’t stay and defense wins ties so he gets put down and BD can get an Unseen killed anyways.
Now lets run through this situation again but instead of a King we have an Apostle with a full cult.
4v5 still. The Apostle makes a BD vote a BD which effectively makes it a 5v4. He gets put on the stand and we have the 4v4 again. Except that we don’t this time. This time someone other than the person on the stand can’t vote making it a 4v3 down from a 4v5.
You say it’s better on trial? How does this person get on trial exactly? If you don’t have enough votes to get him killed then you certainly don’t have enough to get him up there in the first place. If you DO have enough to vote him up then unless you are King you definitely have enough votes to get him killed. And as I demonstrated above you are not king.
Remember that while Noble twins are the Difference of 1 vote in your favor and 2 votes. Political pressure is the difference if 1 vote against you and none. And that is the exact same thing.
There are some things your argument isn’t accounting for.
The first step to executing somebody is voting them up to the stand. If you can get them voted up, use Noble Twin. If you can’t get them voted up, use Political Pressure. The first situation is preferable but the second is better than nothing.
There are also other situations to account for. Like when you don’t want somebody put on trial for claim and logs. You can use Political Pressure to prevent somebody from voting up the MM. If the MM gets voted up anyway, that person’s vote doesn’t count, which is close to or the same as yourself casting an extra vote to pardon.
What situation is noble twins more useful than political pressure?
On Trial.
You say it’s better on trial?
Obviously the ability is better on trial than otherwise since it can’t even be used outside of a trial.
If you don’t have enough votes to get him killed then you certainly don’t have enough to get him up there in the first place.
You get him up first than convince people to vote execute after. There’s little sense in speaking of how many execute/pardon/abstain votes you have before putting him on trial unless it’s one of those rare situations where everybody’s class and manner of voting is common knowledge.
If you DO have enough to vote him up then unless you are King you definitely have enough votes to get him killed.
You are ignoring the fact that there is no proof yet Political Pressure was used and more importantly, that you can convince the court to vote execute while the person is on trial regardless of whether they refused to vote him up or not.
Remember that while Noble twins are the Difference of 1 vote in your favor and 2 votes. Political pressure is the difference if 1 vote against you and none. And that is the exact same thing.
Not sure I understand what you’re saying here but you are definitely oversimplifying the situation by ignoring the fact that people’s opinions can be changed while someone is on trial.
1 Like
Also, remember I’m looking for a replacement for Snoop. That’s more important then whether the Noble gets Noble Twin or Political Pressure.
1 Like
I like snoop as is, I don’t think you should remove it I’d rather it stay than both noble twin or political but yet again this is just my opinion
Edit: also private logs would become useless
How? You know that noble can’t see private notes right? It can only see your normal logs.
The reason private notes were added is because if he wanted to have fake claims ready he could do it without noble seeing it
Private Notes predate Snoop.
They allow you to keep claims without revealing them upon your death, if you use semi accurate information.
But Snoop forces you to keep a claim in your logs rather than your notes.
But it is still not useless evils can make fake claims without noble knowing
Anyways I find it useless if you want someone to not see you’re logs when you’re dead.
I’m pretty sure Private Journal was added recently while Snoop is fairly old. And Snoop does not force you to keep a log. You can keep a blank log with your fake logs in your private journal, and when called out by a Noble for blank logs post your private journal to the public and use that to “prove” the Noble is lying.
Before someone says “well the Noble is just going to force-vote to prove himself”:
- You can call him an Aristocrat or Apostle;
- This is a problem with immediately confirmable day abilities in general and not Noble in particular, which can be remedied with a Bewilder that can target people other than the King.
2 Likes
The Noble will know you are lying. Posting the ones from your private notes proves nothing. Even if they lynch the person, you will be swiftly killed.
Aristocrats and Apostles are rare, and are less likely to accuse you than a true Noble. Try using the defense sometime, I highly doubt it would work.
The Noble will know you are lying.
So what? The Noble can’t kill you, he has to convince the majority to hang you. It was never about convincing the Noble to begin with.
Posting the ones from your private notes proves nothing.
That’s why I wrote the word “prove” in quotes. It’s evidence the Noble is lying, to counter his evidence that YOU are lying.
Aristocrats and Apostles are rare, and are less likely to accuse you than a true Noble.
I agree they are rare, but that’s not the real reason the defense is weak. The real reason is instant-confirmation which again is a problem with classes that have instant-confirmation day abilities in general and not Noble in particular.
1 Like