My view on 1,08 patch balance

#1

First of all, let me say i LOVE this patch 1.08. From a design point of view, i love all of those changes. They whitout a doubt make the game more fun for both sides. But let’s look at the balance.

Removal of priest:

Massive debuff to BD. Priest wasn’t just good because of revive. He also had a one time night immunity and impossible to convert as well as speaking with dead. He was by far the strongest class. Devs admit that it went from 30% to 60% bd win rate after his buff.

I would estimate this change to be worth like -20 for BD. Massive BD nerf.

Alchemist tiny buff:

Let’s say this is +1 for BD. won’t make much of a difference imo, but i like the change.

Court Wizard:

I like this rework, but i don’t consider it a buff. You now protect only 1 teammate from conversion instead of 2. Its going to be more fun to play as and against tho. But i feel like it make it much easier to prove yourself, so i would give it a +2 for BD. Small buff to CW

Drunk:

So drunk is kinda turning into a defensive role. You protect someone from both attacks and conversions. But he kinda lose his “investigative” ability he used to have. I’m actually not 100% sure how i would rate this. I think +2 for BD.

King

I love this change, but its a clear buff to Evil kings. I’d say -2 for BD

Mastermind

Very good MM buff. i’d say -5 for BD. Many games the MM is found because of occupy immune.

Noble

I personally believe this is a nerf for the noble, but arguably a buff to his evil version. -4 for BD imo.
Proving yourself is much harder than it used to be, and i feel like maid was a really nice way to get informed of every roles/detect bad kings. Also BD losing ability to hear wispers means the evils (especially evil king) can now freely abuse wispers, its a huge buff to evil imo.

Psychic

A clear buff to Psychic. +3 BD imo.

Illusionnist

Nerf. +1 BD

Physician

Whitout a doubt a buff to BD. like +7

So overall, i feel like this patch is a fairly big buff to evil. I don’t know what the exact number were, but i expect them to gain at least 10% more win rate. But overall, i feel like all of those changes are great from a design stand point, i definetly support this patch.

If i end up being right about this favoring evil too much, dev can readjust in some other ways.

Personally, i would like the Neutral killers to be gone in order to increase both BD and Evil’s win rate. I also feel like dying to NKs is always frustrating.

1 Like
#2

I think you underestimate the impact of the death knights.

games might be a bit swing based on how many physicians are in game.

what I like is that it has adjusted one of the big issues that noble ,court wizard and priest where dull to play .

#3

About the Death Knight, here is a few points to consider:

  • If done before the late game, its really not that strong. Its similar to a poisonned knight that can’t be cured. His main use is that one CS attempt before dying. I actually think the main strategy will be to wait for late game.

  • If you do decide to wait for late game, then odds are you will die before getting there.

I actually think the devs did a good job introducing a revive mecanic that isn’t OP.

Also keep in mind priest was OP not just because of the revive mecanic (which was WAY stronger than the death knight revive), but also because of talking to dead + conversion immune + night immune once. All of this together made him really strong.

Maybe i’m alone, but i actually liked old noble more. This new one feels useless, old one was pretty strong in the hands of a strong player. CW rework does make him more fun tho.

#4

Furthermore, this is a huge nerf to the Herbalist.
As they cannot resurrect a BD player, so they’ll be confirmed as scum if they claimed Phys prior.
The Death Knight is indeed great, it means you can resurrect a weaker player if they’re dead.
Also, there could be 2 Physicians, so 2 sets of resurrections which is huge, right?

#5

I will miss the current noble . Tried something new yesterday and basically in the first 2 turns I had 70 percent of people’s claims to the Prince. pretty much everyone who hadn’t claimed was scum .

We lost the game . but we got double fooled with evil king and no Paladin spawned .

But really enjoyed it

#6

I mean we could do the classic of Herbalist reviving people as Blight Lord, which is just an Unseen alligned Death Knight that dosen’t learn the rest of the Unseen.

Might add some WIFOM to the scene.

#7

Its much weaker than current priest res tho. Its essentially “res a poisonned knight that can CS only once, and cant be healed”

#8

Indeed. Decent odds physician is killed or forgotten before reviving.

#9

IMO it depends a bit on the scenerio there. Honestly I’ve seen quite a few games where the unseen, or NK immidiately take out the revived guy. Now that option is off the table. He may die in 3 days, but he is guaranteed to have all 3 of those days.

#10

the other thing it don’t have is that new ressurected can’t guarantee the player who resssurecetd him .
before the priest and the ressurecetd player both knew who they where which meant lots of players where confirmed and could block vote

#11

The problem is that it can still be used to confirm. If there is no dark night and someone claims phy then you can make them revive to prove. Personally I like the ability but don’t think it should go to the phys. Probably not the Psychic either though. Any ideas?

#12

An interesting side thought, what if herbalist also got the ability, and death knight did not directly reveal their previous identity. IE they could revive an assasain, and no one could really be sure if it was the former assasain or the former observer that was brought back.

#13

Wouldn’t it be obvious because of thier name?

#14

IE it doesn’t need the past identity… IE the revived could appear as “#17. Death knight”. I suppose psychic would still screw it over if it exists, but that’s about it.

#15

As i explained in my post, if its an early revive then he isn’t going to be super usefull since he dies anyways before the end of the game.

Late revives are less likely to happen since phys are often dead/converted by the end of the game.

#16

The problem is that anyone that is still alive late game with a phys claim will be killed for not ressing.

#17

Actually, giving extra ability use can change the tide of the game, like giving the Alchemist the 3rd use of Emerald Poison that ended cult game in bd victory.

#18

I’m not convinced giving an alch +1 poison is that much better than protecting 2 players from conversion. You’re assuming you actually KNOW for sure this alch is an alch, and that he will actually side with BD, and that he will actually kill the right person. Why not just ask a knight or the prince.

#19

Yes but being able to confirm yourself is a big deal.

#20

It did happen late game I was in.