Nerf Paladin's Smite

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Ever since it was buffed to both protect the paladin and the target it is way too strong in my opinion. Getting hit by a n1 smite, completely cripples cult and it doesn’t take any smart target selection. It’s just dumb luck and that kinda play should be avoided. The convert/kill cycle is so easy to read that it is straightforward to predict when a CL is going to convert. Here are several nerf propositions, which can be used in tandem or individually.

  1. The paladin using smite, will not kill the CL trying to convert the paladin, but simply be shown as conversion immune.

  2. The paladin using smite, will not kill the CL trying to convert the smite target, but simply be shown as conversion immune.

  3. Smite not useable until night 4.

  4. Ritualist’s Brotherhood will make CL go through smite.

  5. Invoker’s Bewilder negates all paladins from being able to use smite that night.

  6. The Paladin using Smite will not kill the CL, but simply be informed of his number and that a conversion was attempted. Sorta like a night time scout that reveals the MM and gives conversion immunity to the sheriff and the scouted target.

Note that most of these still make it better than the old smite, which was not used at all.

I prefer a combination of 1 and 4. 1 entails that the Paladin has to think more about who the CL is going to convert, aside from himself, to have a way stronger effect. Smarter target selection should be encouraged and it makes the lucky yolo smites scenario’s n1/n3 less disastrous. 4 Smartly buffs Brotherhood, which kinda sucks at the moment.

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#2

okay, sometimes they get lucky. IT DOESN’T MEAN SOUND THE ALARM WE NEED TO NERF IT. Honestly I perfer old pally where it killed cult if he found it, might shorten cult games

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#3

I was once starting CL in a game where 2 paladins and their combined smites wiped out the whole cult in the first 2 nights. Since if you successfully smite kill CL n1, you can smite again n2, because they’ll attempt to convert again. That is really not a great experience, but I have also been on the other side of it as a paladin and that just felt too strong. That should indicate a problem, because the scenario is honestly not so unlikely. Note that this thread is not based on that one salty game. :wink:

#4

One person yelling is taken as a crazy person 10 people yelling and they’ll be seen as if they are bringing a valid point

#5

TBH I’ve never seen the reason for the entire power.

I’d just completely replace it.

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#6

I totally disagree! There will always be an element of luck in the early game - it’s risky to use Smite early because you’re likely to waste it. I find Paladin to be pretty weak, actually. Less opportunity to discover than the Sheriff, and his kill ability is very conditional, unlike the Knight.

Cult is harder to find than Unseen AND has more opportunity for converts. To offset this better ability to hide, the need to be cautious of a paladin’s Smite makes sense. If I’m CL and it’s n3, am I really going to try to convert a confirmed BD if I know the Paladin is still alive?

In my experience, the Paladin actually being a game-changer is extremely rare. I don’t think Smite needs a nerf at all.

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#7

/support

Paladin and sheriff just need a complete rework. There shouldn’t be a soft counter for each faction.

That’s another reason why it needs changes though. Abilities shouldn’t only affect one class.

But the cult also has weaker classes.

You usually won’t know who the paladin is though, so you might hit them when you use smite.

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#8

The reason Smite needs a nerf is that, aside from its psychological impact on the game on the CL having to be cautious trying to convert outed BD, it causes a huge swing if it does succeed that cult usually cannot recover from. Several of the nerfs I have proposed only lessen the hugeness of the swing. It is important that outed BD have some kind of protection from conversion through the possibility of a smite, but why does the Paladin need that same amount of “huge” protection. A CL can make the “smart” play by not converting the obvious outed target and going for someone else and just happen to hit the smiting paladin. He can play smart, yet still be punished for it. Nerf 1 would mitigate this risk for example by still keeping the CL alive.

I’d be interested to see what the number of won cult games with no succesful smite compared to the number of won cult games with a successful smite happening is.

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#9

The issue is that each Paladin using Smite M1 gives you a 2/13 chance of hitting one and dying - and you can start with two Paladins. If they both use smite on different people N1, your chance of hitting one is 4/13, or roughly 30%. That’s too high for something that the Cult has no control over. I mean, yes, sometimes people get lucky, but we can fiddle with the probabilities to make it reasonable and to reduce the impact of early-game blowouts (just like how in the first few nights, the MM shows up NS and gets replaced if they die - this avoids random early-game blowouts that would make the game unfun.)

Investigations and Scout aren’t as bad, since they either cost you a starting member or the conversion, not both; and the Mastermind is immune N1. They also require that the Sheriff / Paladin reveal themselves or whisper the king, and that the court believes the accusation. Smite bypasses all that, and does it with a higher probability than an investigation.

Hmm… I have an idea. I’ll make another thread for it.

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#10

Tbh i just think this ability is not useful and should be removed entirely

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