Neutral Conversions

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

I think most non NK neutrals should be convertible, although in general it is a loss for Unseen. This does nerf Alchemist, since they can also be converted, but it should be no walk in the park for Alchemist to win. Inquisitor should change to this, so I have no class for it here. If it does remain the same, it shouldn’t be convertible.

For converted classes:

For Alchemist Conversion:

Brewer (Unseen Offensive)

Passive: Coagulate: Immune to bleeding and poison.

Night Ability: Violet Potion: Make your target think they were attacked and healed. They will be poisoned and die in two days, not knowing that they are poisoned. 2 uses.

For Scorned Conversion:

Forsaken (Unseen Social)

Passive: Vengeance: If you get one of your former targets executed, you gain unlimited uses of frame.

Day Ability: Troll Box (same)

Night Ability: Frame: Make a target appear as unseen to investigators. 3 uses.

For Fool Conversion:

Joker (Unseen Social)

Night Ability: (name needed): Make one Unseen member appear to be Blue Dragon

Night Ability: Hide: Prevent all visitors to you. 2 uses.

Notes: Scorned cannot be converted if they have won.

Changelog
1: Added names (Brewer, Forsaken, and Fool), also added converted class for Alchemist.
2: Limited Frame uses.
3: Added information
4: Removed Frame, added Vengeful Fellow.
5: Added notes
6: Took out lynch penalty on Joker, gave a reverse frame.

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#2

Alchemist should not convert to the herbalist but rather something stronger to make up for the fact that you are not reducing BD numbers. For example sellsword is currently the strongest convert.

#3

Name suggestions:

The Alchemist > The Brewer
The Scorned > The Forsaken
The Fool > The Joker (obvious, I know)

(for fun)
The Inquisitor > The Magistrate

(more fun)
The Prince > The Despot
The Possessor > The Puppet
The Reaper > The Collector

#4

@NuclearBurrito Added Alchemist convert.

@UncannyLuck I liked the names, so I added them.

#5

I don’t think inquisitor should be convertable

#6

I think I said that. While I think Inquisitor would be a better Blue Dragon, as long as it is a neutral it shouldn’t be convertible, since it will instantly change from anti-sorcerer to pro-sorcerer.

#7

This classes are alright but i prefer the Neutrals being immune to being converted

#8

“Brewer” sounds like they make beer, which seems a bit silly. How about “The Thaumaturge” instead?

#9

What on earth is that?

#10

Instead of Fool -> Joker, why not Fool -> Jester. And also when you execute the Jester, like the Fool, instead of making them unable to vote for x days, make it so Unseen turn up NS to investigators for 1 night.

And keep Frame on Jester, so his main goal is to get him killed. But his passive helps Unseen in a completely different manner.

#11

Jester is a ToS role, so I think it might be better to have another name.

Also why would it need to frame? It is already Unseen.

I feel that a Execute punishment might be too OP, since the BD are killing an enemy. It might work though, as it makes up for converting a neutral. Still, self framing is useless on an Unseen member.

#12

Oh right, my bad on Frame. And also, the name itself can not be copyrighted. It’s completely different from ToS also, the Jester there has to kill himself yes, but he gets to kill people from the grave. Our version, the Fool, just prevents voting the next night. This is a play on our Fool, with a rename.

And also, it needs to be an execute punishment because you’re converting the fool to an unseen role. That is my opinion however.

#13

I disagree, I think Enforcer is the strongest convert, since nothing beats Frenzy + 2-for-1.

#14

A revenge does.

#15

I considered that (both thaumaturge and brewer sounding more like beer) for the same reasons you mentioned, but I thought thaumaturge didn’t sound evil enough if that makes sense. Y’know, like Drunk => Alcoholic.

#16

Lots of Unseen don’t sound evil (The Sage?)

If the Fool is convertable, I don’t think they should have a lynch punishment - having an Unseen with a lynch punishment puts the town in a no-win situation most of the time, since it’s easy to lose your few town killers. Plus, having Fools who get converted go from “should not lynch” to “must lynch” adds another strategy for fools who have been outed. Honestly, I’d just give the Joker the exact same powers as the Fool, except flip their ability to frame themselves into an ability to make themselves look innocent, and no lynch punishment. A trollboxing Unseen would be extremely interesting. The fact that it would make them a fairly powerful Unseen role would be balanced by the fact that converting them slightly wastes a convert because you’re not reducing the BD’s numbers - getting rid of the Fool doesn’t benefit the Unseen the way eg. getting rid of a Knight does.

I do think the Joker should keep Trollbox. It’d be dangerous (we might have to remove it later), but it would add a whole new range of strategies and options. I’d also give them the ability to make themselves appear innocent twice, just for symmetry. But I’d remove the lynch punishment; that doesn’t make sense. (Yes, this means a Joker can be in trouble if they previously attracted negative attention, but having your goals flip in ways that may make your past actions haunt you is true for all converted roles.)

Aside: In the forums, at least, please use “lynch” instead of “execute” when talking about voting people to death; it took me forever to figure out what you were talking about. Kings and Princes use Execute, so we can’t use the same term for when the court votes someone up and kills them or it’s going to become impossible to follow discussions. I posted a thread about this before - IMHO they need to update all the existing in-game messages and texts to avoid using “execute” for two different things. Yes, I know the desire to use ToS terms, but we can’t use execute for both Prince kills and vote kills. I seriously kept thinking people were talking about having the Joker punish princes who executed him.

#17

How does a revenge attack (which can be prevented, healed, guarded against or occupied) beat a Frenzied 2-for-1 which is absolutely unstoppable?

#18

Mostly because Revenge is an extra attack. Assassin and Sellsword combined can kill 4 people in a night. Any extra kill can be huge, although Frenzy is good for taking out otherwise protected targets.

#19

Revenge kill + 2-for-1 = 3 POTENTIAL kills, where is the 4th coming from? A Frenzied 2-for-1 is a guaranteed double kill

#20

Nightshade poisoning.

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