Occupation Notifications

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

I’ve complained about this before, but I’m gonna make a more extensive argument here.

Butlers/Drunks should not know if their target is immune.

It mostly targets Neutral Killers

Neutral Killers are some of the hardest classes win with, by necessity. However, we still need to give them every advantage possible, as they are a 1 man team.

There is a reason you can’t be found as a Possessor from a Sheriff checking you night one.

While being targeted by a Butler or Drunk isn’t an insta loss, it makes most claims suspicious. Knight or Court Wizard? Despite how suspicious the claims are, it makes it much less likely to be believed if you are immune.

Another thing to note is that the notifications have been removed from Mastermind because of this. And Mastermind is much better off than a Neutral Killer.

If we don’t want notifications for Mastermind, we shouldn’t have them for anybody.

It makes Court Wizard a negative utility

One of the reasons being immune isn’t insta death is because of the Court Wizard’s barrier.

However, this just makes the Court Wizard interfere with Drunk/Butler. If they make someone occupy immune, then Butler and Drunk get false feedback, because of an ally. This is just another damper to the Court Wizard.

Butler and Drunk are fun to play without this knowledge

I play the game a lot, and I don’t like Butler or Drunk more because of these notifications. While finding the Assassin and a select couple other classes is part of the Drunk’s uniqueness, finding immune classes certainly isn’t.

Debauch carries the Drunk all on it’s own, while Happy Hour is a good ability and the Drunk would be less without it, Drunk would still be a good class.

Now on to the Butler. While Serve Wine is a clearly inferior to Debauch, the Butler makes up for it in all sorts of other ways. Party is a useful self defense mechanism that gives the Butler options the Drunk doesn’t have. And Nightshade Wine is an interesting and useful dynamic.

Suggestions for the Butler

If you still think the Butler is too weak, there are all sorts of other interesting abilities that could compensate for this lack of investigation power.

First, a more potent and less confirm-able Nightshade Wine. Nightshade Wine confirmation is one of the biggest hindrances to the Servant, and it can be easily overridden by any healer. Thus my suggestion, make Nightshade Wine completely silent and unhealable. This makes it a dangerous but effective tool for the Butler to use, while also helping the Servant.

Second, a new ability. A renamed Pants on Fire would be a nice new ability for the Butler, and is a good offensive ability.

Like this for example:

Day Ability: Drugged Wine: If your target uses a day ability today, they will instead use it on them self. 3 uses.

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#2

The main reason why it should stay is because butler and drunk would be boring without any info. All classes need some info. This is also to keep them from targeting the same immune player.

Princess’s flirt is also like this. The one class that this doesn’t apply to is knight, which is an easy fake claim.

Mastermind has it because it is the only special/investigative class which have it. If mastermind didn’t have it then it would be hard for mastermind to fake claim.

Butler/drunk shouldn’t be occupying a player which has protection on them. And court wizard is underpowered anyways.

How is it not a part of it? And even if it isn’t, it still makes them fun to play, which all classes should be.

This is a bit weak. A lot of day abilities aren’t targetable. Just replace it with bewilder and change it so it can target anyone.

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#3

100% agree with op.

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#4

I believe the notification should be removed from drunk only since he can find attackers already. However I think butler should keep it, it would also help make butler and drunk feel more different.

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#5

Not every class needs info. Physician, Hunter, Knight and others are fine without info.

It also has value in finding Unseen, and doesn’t contradict a Knight claim.

It’s hard as hell for NK to fake claim either.

How would they know? CW does need a rework, but that’s besides the point.

It’s not useless. Bewilder would also be good for Butler, though.

Finding attackers makes Drunk unique enough, notifications should go for both.

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#6

Physician tells you when a heal is successful, and what you healed.

Hunter tells you when a player attacks you.

Knight can find night immunes, tell if a player is attacked, and can confirm other blue dragon.

What others? Almost every class has at least some info.

Buff the NKs then. If a class is underpowered, then it should be buffed. You shouldn’t nerf other balanced classes to buff it.

They don’t know, but they can predict it(like physician).

#7

Nerfing classes is a perfectly acceptable solution.

And although you could argue Physician and such gain info, they don’t learn anything about the person’s class.

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#8

Also Bewilder on BD mostly prohibits proving. It’s a lot more telling when someone claims poisoned after you make them target themselves.

#9

But buffing them should take priority. The NKs are weak already, you shouldn’t buff them by nerfing non-guaranteed balanced classes.

They still have some info though. And butler only learns if they’re killer/offensive.

That’s a good thing.

#10

It is, but that should go to evil classes.

I’d be fine if they didn’t get basically investigative results.

#11

Princesses flirt puts them into a category with a viable fake claim. The big issue with occ immunity, is look at the list of occ immune BD classes.

Prince (yeah you won’t live if you claim that)
Butler (leaves a blatently visible footprint, if you aren’t a converted butler, your lack of recorded occupied’s will get you).
drunk (even more blatent than butler)
hunter (likely to be CCed by the real hunter)

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#12

I’ve never seen someone accuse a player for just being occupation immune though(without them already being sus). THey could also claim that they were barriered, or that the butler/drunk is scorned.

#13

Barriered: OK did anyone barrier this guy on n3?

Butler/drunk scorned: But/drunk: OK here’s my full logs N1: X, N2: Y, N3: accused of being occ immune.

X: I was indeed occupied on n1, he can’t be scorned

#14

This has 2 problems.

A. It makes Court Wizard act as a Framer, which is against their team.
B. It happens very rarely.

#15

for me at least, I won’t call out an occupy immune until after the prince is outed or dead. However once the prince is dead, I’m pretty quick to call it out. If a CW was involved I like to imagine they are smart enough to point that out.

Oh and of course I won’t call it out if there’s no reason to think there is an evil occ immune, say a cult game with reasonable certainty that the NK is dead.

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#16

That’s an issue with court wizard. And all abilities need some risk.

That doesn’t mean that it doesn’t happen. Also, calling out a player for just being occupy immune is usually a bad idea(as they could be prince), unless they are already suspicious.

#17

There should be no ability that screws over a team on rare occasions. It’s swingy and should be avoided.

And Butler/Drunk don’t need these notifications.

#18

Butler already scews over the BD. So does prince and court wziard.

#19

How? Preventing actions isn’t always helpful doesn’t drastically lower chances of success or cause a mislynch.

#20

It does.

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