That contains the discussion from the first one though
Thats fine lol, reworking the pretender is what the discussion was about wasn’t it? I disagree with it needing a rework.
PS if you’re on computer you may find this class card generator helpful
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Can you list your reasons again? I’ll list mine
Ty, I’ll use it next time
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Here’s my reasoning:
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Pretender isn’t meant to be NB. I’ve seen people vote Pretenders who have open claimed Pretender. That shouldn’t happen. Pretender is meant to be more NC than NB and should have the same effect on elections that fool and scorned do on trials.
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I have also seen players open claim Pretender to the king. That shouldn’t happen, and some kings have even kept Pretender claims alive.
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Pretender’s day abilities are focused on eliminating/countering competition. I dislike the idea of hardcounters in general, and Pretender should have a better time in elections.
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Pretender’s day abilities should be focused on manipulating elections. Part of the reasoning for the low win rate is because Pretender has nothing to prevent factions from voting their own rather than Pretenders.
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Pretender can just be a better princess at times. This was the same issue that people had with the old alchemist.
A Pretender rework isn’t necessary at the moment, but it’s one of the things that should happen eventually. And buffing Pretender wouldn’t be that much of a nerf on the BD win rate. My Pretender is more NC than NE/NB, so evils could be against the Pretender as well.
NCs can side with whoever they wish, NBs statistically side BD, I’m not sure who pretender usually sides with, I’m certain its not BD though
Sure its bad play, I wouldnt classify it as throwing.
The fault lies with the BD upping them, not the pretender themselves.
They do, they skew king elections in scums favour, I know BD has a much stronger chance of winning in the late game with a BD king.
I.e the king
I disagree, bewildering a king may prevent one faction from gaining majority.
Say you are unseen with 2 members and you can convert that night, your MM and a duchess turned assassin, do you really think you can get majority on your duchess over a pretender open claim? You’ve got the classic BD pretender sympathisers who will vote pretender, you’ve got the “pretender is unconvertable so they can’t be scum, lets up them over a potential MM/converted princess.”
Er, they are a better princess in all respects. By old alchemist you mean when he had OP truth potion?
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True but it’s not uncommon for Pretenders to side BD even before they become king. I don’t have a problem with them deciding who to side with after becoming king, but they should be on their own(most of the time at least) before them.
I never said it was throwing, I just think that there should be something to discourage it.
True but Pretender has nothing to discourage it.
That was a bad example, look at this post. It has the same reasoning, and it’s what I based my ideas off of.
That’s why I want to discourage them from open claiming.
I mean when alch just had an unlimited heal + 2 kills.
Alright, but another main issue that I have with Bewiler/silence and Ballot Mixing is that they only affect one class. I think abilities should be able to work on all(or at least most. I’m fine with immunities) classes
Its a problem with any class with a simple survive win condition.
The open claiming one I mean
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As Pretender who just got poisoned by a Butler, I think there needs to be counterplay besides just appeasing a random player who may or not exist and is in all likelihood an unpredictable idiot. Give me a single-use ability to counter Butler poison. As Pretender King I have room for another ability.
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True though alchemist and mercenary aren’t as much as an issue since they are meant to be NB. And Alchemist could use a more unique win condition.
My original thread had a buffed Dethrone to discourage that(Dethrone: There may not be any more kings after your death), but people complained about it being overpowered.
Do you have any ideas? 1 use of Deadly Guards could work. And is it fine other than that.
Lol yw. Do you like this?
bruh this is op af
and why have kinslayer kill confirmed obs/mystic when you can just use fraud on them
seems a bit excessive imo
also this version of abllot mixing will just incentivize bd ot not vote and evils to vote for their own…
i like the kinslayer change(sort of), i don’t like the new day abilities
the one major downside to kinslayer is that your power comes from the amount of nobles that spawned(besides prince) which kinda sucks, and you can just span blood test on them afterwards
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oh, and adding onto this, it announces there’s a pretender and all princess claims will be susp as fuck
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This would actually have the opposite effect compared to what you are expecting.
The state which this leads to is: Unseen/Cult and NK are dead. BD has thus already won. Pretender can still win. Now all Pretender has to do is point out that this is the case and that thus BD has no reason not to just let her win cuz the game would just end immediately once she does anyway.
Also as she is the only non-NK neut that must survive the entire game that doesn’t have survival as the intended challenge (alchemist has surviving as the challenge, Inquis/merc/scorned/fool can win mid game and sellsword can win while dead) having permanent death immunity rather than just 1 time is justified.
Since if there is an election then by definition this is a better royal blood. Since you already needed elections to happen so long as you are not the King this does not effect open claiming pretender.
Also both day ability’s are OP AF for her purposes
Not to mention this ability is a givaway to your faction which shouldn’t exist
You are doing it wrong. You want to ENCOURAGE lynching an Exiled King (also I get a Pretender King AND scum can’t replace her if she sides with me? Where do I sign up?)
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Honestly. None of these changes make me not want to trust Pretenders any less than I already do (to be fair I don’t trust pretenders but that is besides the point)
Dethrone sounds cool. Although Pretender having to survive to win with only 1 guard makes it harder to survive as Pretender King than other Neut Kings. Which seems terribly ironic, since you have to become King whereas the rest simply made the choice to. Assuming that I’m correct that Pret only gets 1 guard and neut kings get 2.
I also played a game where Pretender helped Cult win in exchange for the throne. Then, Cult executed him for lols because their victory was already assured. This is problematic. If Pretender has to do more than simply become King to win, he needs something to discourage yolo executions. Like take down the first person who accused him.
I was excited about Pretender at first. But after playing some games with him I’ve changed my mind. Becoming King and then surviving to end-game is too difficult. And this problem is compounded by the ridiculous allies, which you can’t even counter because protectors are always on King early game … but this problem applies to all neuts.
I would much rather a Pretender who wins upon becoming King. And then either dies or just loses all abilities, after causing some sort of harm to BD that would greatly discourage electing Pretender.
I want the class to be about becoming King, not surviving.
Convincing them that you aren’t pretender and are an ally. If they think they can win without you and remove you then that’s on you
Becoming King is meaningless if you don’t then do something as King. Most suggestions I’ve seen (prior to Pretender) turned you into either Evil King or a unique King with SS wincon.