Resolved: Fool is competitive #debate

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#162

That sounds like a better use for this thread than the intended purpose

#163

Fool rn is a punishment for all factions alike, if you execute on him.

#164

if anything it might be a slight NK buff which i wouldn’t be opposed to

1 Like
#165

That’s a decent part of the appeal imo

Keeps Fool’s balance about where it is

#166

Actually u rite

Shit

NKs are buff af already lol

#167

like the idea is that the reward benefits villagers more but still benefits wolves, and that the wolves have to decide whever to not kill the Fool and implicitly waste villager kills or take their easy reward

2 Likes
#168

It’s not at all even tho

#169

right this is ToL

forgot that NK doesn’t need to be buffed there

1 Like
#170

NKs get no reward because killing a neutral as a neutral is probably never better than the alternative?

1 Like
#171

Yea, cult loses the most if you execute on him, Unseen loses much (unless you are MM), most neuts lose something, NK loses nothing, most BD lose something

#172

atm i think fool execute can ruin a cult game, but almost never harms unseen

can really mess with possessor but never reaper/sorc

and, well, hurts BD to varying degrees

#173

Or should they still get something and maybe get individualized nerfs if necessary later

#174

If we can agree on a reward that can be more even, we can fix that

#175

the 1-2 days of no trials hurts BD a lot more than the loss of limited ability uses

4 Likes
#176

i feel like since we can’t get rid of Fool we might as well add a different layer to it to make it less unfair when it comes to the lynch and add a new layer of interaction with the neuts

1 Like
#177

No-trial doesn’t hurt them at all, it forces them to use their night abilities more coordinated and thoughtful… which has often the better results. Since killing an unseen convert is often plain bad for BD.

#178

So why do trials exist at all if taking them away is better for BD?

#179

i get your thought process but even with optimal ability usage having trials is still better than not having trials because it turns out you aren’t always able to kill scum at night

2 Likes
#180

an idea i came up with off the top of my head is

Inane Plans (Passive) - If you die, then a random non-Special player of faction other than the faction you killed you is occupied bypassing immunity.

but randomness is yikes

#181

That’s a weak reward