Okay damn that’s powerful. Still doesn’t affect my previous points at all, but yeah that sounds quite not good.
1: I have not played the new patch, nor do I claim to have.
2: The King is exactly as trustworthy as he was before.
3: I do not deny that the King has issues. See my King suggestion.
However, I strongly believe that removing Allies is the right move in any circumstance. Also, there are entire games built around the idea of nobody having investigative powers, and sometimes no powers at all (such a mountainous setup). These games are still entirely winnable by Town with a higher percentage than random chance would suggest.
Now, despite this, I do not suggest removing all investigatives from ToL. I know you don’t mean to insinuate that I do, and that you were only hyperbolizing my position in an attempt to make a point, but I will still clarify that that is not my goal.
But the old King crossed the line between having investigative powers available and relying entirely on them.
King is definitely not as trustworthy because of the reasons I described. Previously, if a King found and outed an evil, he appeared as if he was working for BD. Now, there’s is no way for King to increase the Court’s trust in himself. AND because he has a direct kill ability, he is even less trustworthy and communication is discouraged. Why would I ever tell the king my class when he can directly kill me if he’s evil?
Anyway, I do think old king/Allies deserved a nerf. I just don’t approve of completely removing the king’s investigative abilities, since they are what gave king his social power. Allies should come back in a nerfed fashion. Allies having 3 charges and giving feedback in the form of ‘sus/not sus’ is probably the best way to do it IMO.
Why would you have told the King your class before? He could simply whisper it to any Unseen he found, and the end result would be the same.
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Because it was possible for the old king to build trust by finding evils? You’re telling me you’re not going to out to a King that killed 2 evils with his checks?
Honestly feels like you guys are playing a completely different game than me. Nobody in my games trusts or communicates with king.
It varies a lot but I’m east coast USA
I’m not saying I wouldn’t out myself. I’m simply making the point that there is always the same risk involved. Especially since that same King now could have straight-up killed two Unseen.
Also EUS but haven’t played yet lol
Mathmatically he is trust worthy
literally every king outed an evil to save their ass.
there is, it’s called getting claims and being active. An active BD is a BD who wins.
It’s announced that the king killed someone, it would be suicide unless you were killing an important class.
The thing is… the only invest ability that would make sense for king would be an Royal Blood check
I’ve had varying results, but I agree that people broadly trust him less.
I’m trying to figure out why. Anyway, we’ll see if the new numbers in the latest patch change anything, but IMHO either way, strategically, BD should almost always trust the starting king unless they have a compelling reason not to. The benefits of trusting a good king vastly outweigh the disadvantages of trusting an evil one, since an evil one usually can’t do anything bad without outing themselves.
I feel that this is part of a more general problem in these kinds of Mafia games where the Town / BD / good-uninformed side is too reluctant to share information, as if they can just keep their heads low and the evils will forget about them.
Sheriff is a bit much. Had a game where he openly outted himself d3 and Unseen spent the entire game trying to kill him and couldn’t, game went to d10. Prince was even dead, but it didn’t matter. Kings would chain guard him while healers healed him, assuming he didn’t just make himself unkillable, which also let him see whoever was after him.
We tried killing the king and converting a known Drunk, but that also failed, which just reset their guards and it was all over at that point.
If you don’t get a Royal Blood convert early AND get them voted up it’s kind of rough, especially since Kings are usually good, which makes the Sheriff outting himself a fairly safe play.
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Trust me, Orange…
The Sheriff change was a horrible thing, and here is why:
Sheriff is now no longer a valid fakeclaim. That is very important because sheriff was a very strong fakeclaim for Unseen that was absolutely needed.
Sheriff can protect himself 3 times while outing unseen that visit OR making all visitors MM or not unseen.
Sheriff can freely out himself because usually there are so many healers, especially these alchs the Unseen can’t reliably kill.
Their ability stops even a Sage with Wall of Fire.
Every time I see Unseen win one of the following happens:
The Sheriff dies because they didnt claim.
The Sheriff was murdered by the Evil King.
The King got killed somehow, and replaced by a trusted Evil King.
THATS IT.
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