Saru's Classes - BD Investigative and Converts

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

So since I’ve been asked to post my own classes here, here they are. As I’ve made quite a handful, I decided to split them up into threads by their faction and alignment and will be periodically posting them here in order not to clog up the forum.

Aside from creating new classes, I’ve decided to focus on two things while creating them. The first one would be to make them as difficult to confirm as possible when BD, while the second one would be giving them abilities to add more ambiguity to already established game mechanics, such as Unseen-aligned classes that can remove Royal Blood or classes that have day abilities to give them occupation immunity for the night as a means of toning down the Butler and Drunk’s investigative abilities.

The Fortuneteller

Blue Dragon Investigative
Numerology (Day) - Tells the Fortuneteller how many Blue Dragon-aligned players are still alive by the beginning of the coming night. Does not take the King’s alignment into account. - 2 uses
Shuffle Deck (Night) - Grants an additional charge of Tarot Card. - Infinite uses
Tarot Card (Night) - Select three players. By the end of the night the Fortuneteller will receive from one to three cards. Each card will tell the role of one of the selected player. Special-type classes will return the same result for Investigative-type classes and Killer-type classes will return the same result for Offensive-type classes. Tarot Card bypasses anything that would prevent visits but the Fortuneteller can still be occupied. - 0 uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.
Magic User

Converts into:

The Sibyl

Unseen Investigative
Arithmancy (Day) - Tells the Sibyl the precise number of Neutrals, Unseen, and Blue Dragon-aligned players are still alive by the beginning of the coming night. Does not take the King’s alignment into account. - 2 uses
Fated Deck (Night) - Grants an additional charge of Major Arcana. - Infinite uses
Major Arcana (Night) - Select three players. By the end of the night the Sibyl will learn all of their class types. - 0 uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.
Magic User

The Governor

Blue Dragon Investigative
Kingmaker (Passive) - The Governor’s vote during King elections stealth counts as three votes.
Certify (Day) - The Governor grants his target conversion immunity for the coming night. - 4 uses
Trace Lineage (Night) - Informs the Governor whether his target has Royal Blood or not. - Infinite uses
Background Check (Night) - If a King’s election was held during the previous day, then the Governor will be informed of which factions had their members step up. - 1 use
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into:

The Chancellor

Unseen Investigative
Kingmaker (Passive) - The Chancellor’s vote during King elections stealth counts as three votes.
Forged Documents (Day) - The Chancellor grants the Royal Blood passive to a member of the Unseen. - 1 use
Usurp (Day) - If the King is put on trial, then the Chancellor can force the court to execution them. - 1 use
Trace Bloodline (Night) - Informs the Chancellor whether his target has Royal Blood or not and their precise class if they do. - Infinite uses
Stigmatize (Night) - Removes Royal Blood from your target for two nights. Unlimited uses. - Infinite uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

The Overseer

Blue Dragon Investigative
Transparency (Day) - For trials today, the Overseer nullifies any ability that forces the court to either pardon or execute their target. Can be used during trials. - 1 use
Record Examination (Night) - Providing a player was executed, informs the Overseer of how many Blue Dragon-aligned players voted for a pardon for the trial in the previous day. - Infinite uses
Evidence Examination (Night) - Providing a player was executed, informs the Overseer of how many Blue Dragon-aligned players voted for an execution for the trial in the previous day. - Infinite uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into:

The Bureaucrat

Unseen Investigative
Red Tape (Day) - Selects a player and prevents the ability for them to be put up on trial. - 1 use
Precise Examination (Night) - Providing a player was executed, informs the Bureaucrat of which Blue Dragon classes voted for a pardon for the last trial in the previous day. - Infinite uses
Jury Tampering (Night) - If a player is put to trial the next day then the votes of the Bureaucrat’s target will be reversed if they do not abstain. - Infinite uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

The Actuary

Blue Dragon Investigative
Sharp Eyes (Day) - Selects a player during the day. In the following night the Actuary will be notified if they have used any Day abilities. - 2 uses
Notice to Detail (Day) - At the beginning of the night, the Actuary will be told how many day abilities were used the previous day. - 2 uses
Inventory (Night) - Selects a player and the Actuary will be informed of the total number of uses they have for both their night abilities combined. Abilities with unlimited usage will count as zero. - Infinite uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into:

The Taxman

Unseen Investigative
Precise Details (Passive) - At the beginning of the night, the Taxman will be told how many day abilities and which abilities were used.
Avarice (Day) - Selects a player during the day. Will notify the Taxman if they have used any Day abilities this day and which abilities were used. - 3 uses
Inventory (Night) - Selects a player and the Taxman will be informed of the total number of uses they have for both their night abilities combined. Abilities with unlimited usage count as zero. - Infinite uses
Confiscate (Night) - If the target has any abilities with finite usage, then the Taxman will remove one usage from each of their abilities. - 3 uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

The Socialite

Blue Dragon Investigative
Royal Blood (Passive) - As a Royal, you can put your name forward for nominations to become the next King.
Guest List (Day) - By the end of the coming night, you will know how many players of each faction visited you. - 2 uses
Social Links (Night) - The Socialite selects two players and will return a positive result providing both targets’ class types match. Special classes count as Investigative. - Infinite uses
Faction Links (Night) - The Socialite selects two players and will return a positive result providing both targets’ alignments match. Will always return a negative result if used on the Prince. - 2 uses
Defeat the Unseen or Cult and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Converts into:

The Marchioness

Unseen Investigative
Royal Blood (Passive) - As a Royal, you can put your name forward for nominations to become the next King.
The Woman Behind the Man (Passive) - The Marchioness will appear as Blue Dragon for faction checks and will be promoted straight to Mastermind if the Mastermind dies, regardless of when they die or if the Assassin is still alive. This passive is not lost when the Marchioness is promoted to an Assassin, only when they become the Mastermind.
VIP List (Day) - By the end of the next night you will know which players visited the Mastermind that night. - 3 uses
Social Links (Night) - The Marchioness selects two players and will return a positive result providing both targets’ class types match. Special classes count as Investigative. - Infinite uses
Faction Links (Night) - The Marchioness selects two players and will return a positive result providing both targets’ alignments match. - 2 uses
Defeat the Blue Dragon and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

1 Like
#2

This is interesting. But do you have any BD socials is my question?

#3

Yep. Currently I have three socials, four killers, five supports, and two offensives to go with the five investigative classes. Right now I’m basically only throttling them in order not to spam.

1 Like
#4

There are only 2 BD socials. When you can would you post the social classes?

#5

If you really want them, I’ll post now.

#6

nvm I found it

#7

Imagine that three people voted pardon and none are BD.

That’s extremely op

#8

Imagine that three people voted pardon and none are BD.
That’s extremely op

That’s basically a fringe case like a Sheriff finding both the Assassin n1 along with a convert via scout, and it’s easy to avoid this if the scum player tries to check the mood of the court to vote with the majority or resort to abstaining. And there’s also the fact that in most ToL games executions don’t happen every day or are very one-sided, so having an Overseer out several evils at once shouldn’t happen that often unless the evils are being obvious.

In executions the entire court typically all vote execute together with a few abstains thrown around in there. In either way being one of the few pardons is typically going to raise suspicion on you. The Overseer’s there just to seal the deal, or clear your name if you’re BD.

Though I could swap around and replace the faction check with a class type check if it’s too strong. Plus, I’d imagine that there should be enough counterplay to the Overseer by either voting with the flow and abstaining in ambiguous cases.

#9

Do you have some sort of Megathread where all your ideas are kept?

#10

Err, no but I should probably make one. I also have a few other reworks, most notably a revamp of the King and the Sorcerer+Inquisitor in mind and still have yet to make a thread with my killer, offensive, and support roles.

#11

I see, ok :smiley:

#12

The Fortuneteller

Numerology (Day) - Tells the Fortuneteller how many Blue Dragon-aligned players are still alive by the beginning of the coming night. Does not take the King’s alignment into account. - 2 uses

I like.

Tarot Card seems cool too.

The Sibyl

Tells the Sibyl the precise number of Neutrals, Unseen, and Blue Dragon-aligned players are still alive by the beginning of the coming night and reveals the King’s alignment.

Remove the revealing King’s alignment part and I like this.

Select three players. By the end of the night the Sibyl will learn all of their class types.

This is basically three night’s worth of Duchess Bat Eyelashes all at once. Overpowered, in my opinion. I would consider changing it so that it it’s exactly like Tarot Card except revealing factions and not classes.

The Governor

Kingmaker (Passive) - The Governor’s vote during King elections stealth counts as three votes.

This is too strong (almost the same as letting Governor choose the King all by himself). At least make it only count as two votes, or change it so that Governor forces a person to vote for a certain candidate.

Certify (Day) - The Governor grants his target immunity to Royal Blood removing effects for the rest of the match provided that they started with Royal Blood.

I don’t support this because it will be too effective against any ability that removes Royal Blood. As soon as someone is confirmed Royal Blood, a Governor will instantly Certify them, making anyone trying to delete it fail.

Trace Lineage (Night) - Informs the Governor whether his target has Royal Blood or not. - Infinite uses

I don’t like this because it makes Royal Blood an even more significant factor in class confirmation, which we need less of, not more.

Background Check (Night) - If a King’s election was held during the previous day, then the Governor will be informed of which factions had their members step up. - 1 use

Okay.

The Chancellor

Forged Documents (Day) - The Chancellor grants the Royal Blood passive to a member of the Unseen. - 1 use

I like.

Trace Bloodline (Night) - Informs the Chancellor whether his target has Royal Blood or not and their precise class if they do. - Infinite uses

I like.

Stigmatize (Night) - Removes Royal Blood from your target for two nights.

I would make it so that the “remove royal blood” and “give royal blood” are both night abilities, or both day abilities, to prevent both being used at the same time which would be overpowered. I would also make both abilities only work for one night, so more skill is required to use them effectively.

*The Overseer

Transparency (Day) - For trials today, the Overseer nullifies any ability that forces the court to either pardon or execute their target. Can be used during trials. - 1 use

I don’t like this because now everytime Evil King puts Prince up, whether he can get force-executed or not depends on whether Overseer or Evil King smashes their button first.

Record Examination (Night) - Providing a player was executed, informs the Overseer of how many Blue Dragon-aligned players voted for a pardon for the trial in the previous day.

Evidence Examination (Night) - Providing a player was executed, informs the Overseer of how many Blue Dragon-aligned players voted for an execution for the trial in the previous day.

To be honest I’m not happy with how much this reduces the importance of socially-deducing voting behavior instead of deducing it via investigative abilities.

Red Tape (Day) - Selects a player and prevents the ability for them to be put up on trial. - 1 use

This is basically a Decide Fate Pardon. Too overpowered for someone that isn’t King.

Jury Tampering (Night) - If a player is put to trial the next day then the votes of the Bureaucrat’s target will be reversed if they do not abstain. - Infinite uses

I think this ability is really cool! I would rather it be on a social class though.

The Actuary and The Taxman

Seems cool, I have no complaints.

The Socialite

Guest List (Day) - By the end of the coming night, you will know how many players of each faction visited you. - 2 uses

I don’t like this for partly the same reason I didn’t like that superhero Sheriff patch. It’s very unfun to say, drug someone, but get outed because you’re the only visitor and their ability informed them that only Unseen visited.

Social Links (Night) - The Socialite selects two players and will return a positive result providing both targets’ class types match. Special classes count as Investigative. - Infinite uses

Faction Links (Night) - The Socialite selects two players and will return a positive result providing both targets’ alignments match. Will always return a negative result if used on the Prince. - 2 uses

I think these are great abilities but I want one of them given to Princess in place wisp.

The Marchioness

Would be interesting to see how this works out in practice.

#13

These are all incredibly well thought out, flavorful classes. Well done.

I particularly like the Actuary.

2 Likes
#14

Remove the revealing King’s alignment part and I like this.

Did it with the Judge and now I’ll do it here too. I didn’t gouge the strength of knowing the King’s alignment too well here, I admit.

This is basically three night’s worth of Duchess Bat Eyelashes all at once. Overpowered, in my opinion. I would consider changing it so that it it’s exactly like Tarot Card except revealing factions and not classes.

This is technically x1.5 Bat Eyelashes at once though. The Sibyl requires to use Fated Deck to gain a charge in order to use that ability.

I don’t like this because now everytime Evil King puts Prince up, whether he can get force-executed or not depends on whether Overseer or Evil King smashes their button first.

It can be used on trials even before the EK can hit execute, so reflexes shouldn’t matter here too much.

I don’t support this because it will be too effective against any ability that removes Royal Blood. As soon as someone is confirmed Royal Blood, a Governor will instantly Certify them, making anyone trying to delete it fail.

Hmm, Certify can possibly be used as a limited-usage Clear Mind. It could potentially work well, especially fitting with the Governor’s theme of vetting King candidates.

I don’t like this for partly the same reason I didn’t like that superhero Sheriff patch. It’s very unfun to say, drug someone, but get outed because you’re the only visitor and their ability informed them that only Unseen visited.

Tbh, the Super Sheriff was broken mainly because he also couldn’t be converted and also had a 3-use night immunity with that old Surveillance. Plus, this doesn’t give the exact players who visited. Guest List shouldn’t be that strong as the Socialite is still vulnerable and does not who visited her, only their factions.

1 Like
#15

I want to second what Sketch said about these class ideas being very well thought-out.

This is technically x1.5 Bat Eyelashes at once though. The Sibyl requires to use Fated Deck to gain a charge in order to use that ability.

Oh yeah, you’re right. I’m fine with it then, since that extra .5 Bat Eyelashes comes at the price of doing practically nothing for a night.

It can be used on trials even before the EK can hit execute, so reflexes shouldn’t matter here too much.

As EK my favorite strategy is get someone who is known only to me as Prince (or suspected by me as being Prince) getting voted up rapidly with a bogus accusation. And then deciding fate. This is already a risky enough move, since if I don’t get him voted up fast enough, I will accomplish nothing but getting myself executed.

The ability you propose would make this even riskier, that’s why I don’t like it.

Hmm, Certify can possibly be used as a limited-usage Clear Mind. It could potentially work well, especially fitting with the Governor’s theme of vetting King candidates.

Okay, I guess.

Tbh, the Super Sheriff was broken mainly because he also couldn’t be converted and also had a 3-use night immunity with that old Surveillance. Plus, this doesn’t give the exact players who visited. Guest List shouldn’t be that strong as the Socialite is still vulnerable and does not who visited her, only their factions.

Okay, maybe that ability on its own isn’t too bad.

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#16

Ultimately, I envisioned that using Transparency would silently nullify any ability that can mess with the trial. If you tried to DF when the Overseer used Transparency it would just tell the King that the ability failed and nobody would be the wiser.

Essentially my classes go for a least confirmation as possible.

#17

Can I decide fate to execute an Overseer? :yum:

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