Scum having no excuse to avoid proving themselves with abilities

Feedback/Suggestions
#22

Not every instance of the ability would need to work the same way. For example the one we give to butler/servant/Invoker/Scorned (for the rest of the conversation I will refer to this as Confound) could work on anyone including King (Invokers already does and the Butlers current Ability straight up kills him) but the one we give to Mastermind might not (reaper’s also does right now as a side effect of stopping voting). Preventing Jail is actually something I would want to be a possibility for the Confound. If we do something like give CW or Mastermind a day barrier or whatever then it should only work on limited use abilitys. If you noticed there are no confirmable unlimited use day Ability’s. Jail doesn’t do anything until the night, finger is on king who is already confirmed and scout on gives feedback to the sheriff and is easy to fake.

Actually maybe we should give it to assassin? Distract is useless 90% of the time. He wouldn’t be able to use it on king/prince if we did.

#23

Cleaner version of the above

Fizzle = The ability was prevented and further Ability usage is stopped. Will still consume a use of the ability. Anything that causes something to Fizzle will give the same feedback

Butler/Servant/Scorned: Confound - The next day ability that target player uses will fizzle. (2 uses)

Invoker will have Bewilder changed to the above but with 1 use.

CW/Sage/Ritualist: Aura Guard - Limited use day Ability’s used on the target will fizzle. (3 uses)

Reaper: Just apend “Or use limited use day Ability’s” to the end of chill.

Assassin: Distract - Expends a use of the Target’s day Ability’s. Cannot target King (2 uses)

The assassin is good enough. He should be fine with a week Ability like that when he already has Poison. Plus this can make the “Im out of uses” excuse more plausible.

If you don’t believe that this would help then please remember that they are day Ability’s and dont need to be planned in advance. Plus if they don’t believe it then they can be used to get a power class such as Psychic lynched as Scorned or whatever.

#24

I still don’t like giving it to the Butler or CW. Not only is it outside the scope of what we’re trying to solve (BD day abilities being used to prove), it potentailly makes things worse because we’re adding a new ability that could potentially be used to prove.

Even with a wide variety of people with the ability, it could still narrow down possibilities a bit, and I just don’t think we should ever give a BD role a Day ability with an immediately-obvious effect unless it is absolutely necessary. And beyond that, I just don’t understand why you want Butlers or CWs to gain this ability at all - what purpose does it serve for them? As I understand it, the only purpose of this ability is so evils can use it to prevent people from using day abilities to prove.

As for having them work similarly… it’s not essential, no, but it’s good because it makes the game slightly less complex. Complexity is a resource, so to speak; there’s a limit to how complex the game can become before it becomes impenetrable for new players. And Throne of Lies is already a hugely complex game where a single player failing to know the exact details of any one ability can lead to catastrophic failure for an entire team. So all else being equal it’s better to go for a simpler solution.

#25

I think half the reason for Distract’s existence is so scum can claim they were distracted to buy time to fix their logs on stand.

#26

Well no one ever does that. Even if it’s a possable play if you get to the level where you think to do that you also are at the point where you don’t need it.

#27

I agree nobody ever does it but how is it not a legitimate strategy? I don’t know what you mean by “if you think to do it then you don’t need to do it”. Also if somebody claims distracted on the stand I’m more likely to pardon them, since Unseen can’t be distracted. Almost the same situation if someone appears to be trollboxed on stand, however being distracted is proof you are not Unseen and being trollboxed only means you are PROBABLY not Unseen.

#28

because it primarally comes in handy IF you didn’t have logs ready and need to explain why it took you 15 seconds to copy and paste logs that take most people under 5 seconds to copy/paste.

However if you are a skilled scum player, you already had your logs ready before the morning started. let alone before you hit the stand. Especially now thanks to the nobles new ability that makes posting anything other than the logs that were in your journal last night, or having multiple logs in your journal gotchas.

#29

Not necessarily. I never fill in my logs for that night until the next morning, in case a Noble snoops me and challenges me to prove myself. For example, if I write:

[n1 follow 3|3 visited 1][n2 follow 3

If a Noble snoops me and asks me who 3 visited, I’m screwed that very day. But if I only write:

[n1 follow 3|3 visited 1][n2

… I have a lot of wiggle room to make up a claim for what I did last night. Maybe I’m put on trial and have no n2 logs and need to write “[n2 follow 3|OCCD]” and I can claim distracted as my excuse for not immediately posting my logs.

#30

Well sure there I get what you are saying. but we are in agreement, you should have effectively everything prior to that night down log wise, meaning you only have half between 1 and 1 half of a night worth of stuff to put down. Which again you should be at the latest starting to come up with at the start of the next day.

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#31

eh i guess you’re right