The cheapest stuff are 3.0 kG.
Because of the stupid arena that @CRichard564 recommended me to do, I lost 350 G. --however, I wouldn’t have had enough money anyways, so nothing changed in the end.
no
we don’t kill chloe now
there isn’t a reason to yet, unless I managed to miss something?
Pingus II: Return of the King
@an_gorta_pratai
@PokemonKidRyan
@Darth_Vader
@Apprentice
@Icibalus
@Zone_Q11
@Chloe
@Leafia
@TheBlueElixir
1 Like
If you’re reading this, I guess I didn’t die last night - which almost confirms in my mind that the anticlaim is flavor-based.
At this point its probably pretty damn obvious that I am not a Mason with Marshal, but I can promise that we have been faking that for good reason. Here’s literally everything I have minus flavor.
The first half of my class:
First things first, day one, I softed that I have a prophet/oracle ability - which is semi-true, as it isn’t necessarily an ability. In fact, I have no abilities. I started the game as Vanilla Town, and have a passive where if I reach half-majority of votes (rounded down), I would be given a modpeek on a single player on my wagon at the start of the night. When asked about how I self-resolve, I told eevee and Alice that a single person would confirm me (whoever I got the check on), or everyone would confirm me (for a reason I will get to in a lil’ bit).
Oracle soft
Questioning by eevee and Alice
During the questioning by eevee and Alice, Alice asked if the “one person” could be a person of my choice. She asked that it be on a trusted player, if it could be. I responded that it isn’t my choice, but unless I missed something, they should be trusted. When I reached half-majority (rounded down), the people on my wagon were ModeShifter, Derps, Ici, PKR, Marshal, Apprentice. Of these 6 people, I trusted 4 of the 6 (everyone but derps and seth). However, I was voting Seth at the time, and wanted him to be the lynch. I asked a question about my class, and it turned out that if we lynched Seth, he would be out of the pool of players who could potentially be revealed to me at the start of the night, so I had a really really high chance of getting someone who was a consensus townread.
Question and Answer
Wagon Composition
Near the start of d2, I softed to Marshal that I know his flavor. Though it didn’t necessarily confirm me, I didn’t want to wait any longer than I had to to out this to him. I’m not going to quote this post because I don’t want him to get hit by flavor anticlaim. We DID NOT start faking Masons at this point. In fact, Marshal was still pretty sus of me. His suspicion was valid though, because I didn’t actually claim anything that was self-resolving.
The second half of my class:
I was hoping I could go the entirety of d2 without having to claim the really important part of my class, but that kinda became impossible because Seth’s flip put me in a really bad spot. Seth was a rolecop, which meant that my claim of knowing Marshal’s flavor couldn’t be trusted. I was forced to claim the second half (and the most important half) of my class - which is the fact that I can speak to the dead. This is what I was talking about when I said that either one person confirms me, or everyone confirms me.
This is why Marshal is FPSing as my Mason buddy. I didn’t start the Mason claim, he did, and I’ve been going along with it. He was trying to save my ass from anticlaim, probably so that I could get info from Alice tonight. Also, I had a really shitty priest-like soft at the end of d1, when I quoted Evanescence’s “Bring me to Life” lmfao, but it exists.
This is the info that I wanted to out to everyone like 12h before EoD, but Marshal disagreed, so I stuck with the fake Mason claim. If I outted that I really do have dead-interaction, I would easily be the kill tonight, even though it mechconfirms Marshal as town. If I gave this info 20 minutes before EoD like Hippo was trying to get me to do, I wouldn’t have enough time to explain the entire Mason FPS, and it would just clutter chat and cause more chaos than it was worth. Also I would fuckin DIE because of it.
Dead-interaction claim
D1 “soft”:
At SoD2:
After Seth flipped
^ this was based off of something that EVO said, as he scumread cheese for having TMI on me being town, and because his reason for voting EVO was “fucking awful.”
Marshal starting Mason claim
Since I’m alive today, I promised to out everything that I have. My passive that allows me to speak to the dead is not a straight up “join dead-chat” ability (probably so that I don’t have a neighborhood with someone who gets Valkyrie) - instead, I can choose a dead player during the day. They get pulled out of dead-chat and I get a private chat with them for the night. Night 1 I was automatically put in a chat with EVO, and last night I selected Alice. Heres all the shit we talked about (I asked, and im not allowed to say anything word for word, so i have to paraphrase).
Convo with EVO
EVO took a break from the thread for a while at the start of the night cuz he was pissed that he died so early into the game. He was looking forward to the flavor.
He reminded me that we should follow his readslists, and sheep Centuries because he has similar reads, unless something changes with that slot.
Wants everyone to re-revaluate Alice. Called her an idiot with flawed logic, and said we should watch out for strawman arguments. Also said shes probably a deepwolf who pushed for an easy mislynch, and even if she isn’t a wolf, people should wake the fuck up and stop letting her run everything.
He wants ITA shots on Leafia for having TMI on his slot and hopping off the wagon at such little resistance - unless they self-resolve.
Thinks cheese is suspicious because of his TMI on me being town and because “his reasoning for voting me was fucking awful.”
Wants us to look at everyone who swapped onto his wagon towards the end of the day. Especially cheese and Evil Ginger who he thinks only voted for the gold and because hes sheeping Alice.
I told him about my other abilities and skills, but told him not to tell someone with Valkyrie about them unless theyre towncore, in case scum gets the stave.
We also had some off-topic convo.
Convo with Alice
First thing I asked her right off the bat was what her class and flavor were. Her flavor was “Lewyn” and she had wind magic. Her skills were Adept and Critical, and she had no abilities. She was nearly completely VT, but she had a really strong passive called “Forseti” that gave her a piece of game info every night.
The info she got n1 was that there is at least 1 Lost Wolf in the game. She said that since Italy flipped Neutral, we probably have room for only 1 LW in the setup if we have an NK. She scumreads TBE and we both think that he fits the bill.
She wanted me to point out these posts:
Said that because she never softed anything about having an important class and never asked for protectives to be on her, wolves weren’t worried about her being a potential PR, but because she probably has correct reads, or close to correct.
We both agree that its very unlikely that she died to anticlaim, as she never claimed anything of value about her class. Its likely that she died to an NK or a janitor factional kill
Her new shotlist is (in no order):
TBE
eevee
Vader
Leafia/Apprentice unless greenchecked, or if one of them flips town
oB/Derps unless greenchecked, or if one of them flips town
Me (until this happened :^) )
She said to never shoot Arete (previously EG) or CRich, and to not let Vul bleed out
Wants us to sheep her shotlist, and if every Mason claim is alive tomorrow, we need consider that there are wolves within them
I was away when she gave me her mech info, but I asked (after the stuff above) why she thinks TBE is the LW. She said she, without a doubt, believes he is some sort of wolf, and would fit into the LW slot perfectly:
- His tone is incredibly different from ToS2, where he was a PR townie. He isn’t sticking to any reads, and he lacks the confidence he showed in SFoL 60 Randomizer and FoS2, when he randed town
- Sheeping others when he usually makes decisions for himself. Voted gorta d1 because Apprentice said hes usually townie under pressure, then had a hedgy read on Apprentice later into the day
- Not confident in d1 reads, when he was rather confident in them during ToS2
- Also memeing a lot less than ToS2 - hes been extremely stiff
- Didn’t want to ITA at all - then claims he doesn’t want to ITA in the PoE because he will die next, and he will receive the blame if he shoots a townie. He remembered he had Astra AFTER shooting Italy, so this wasn’t a reason he didn’t want to shoot town
- Shot the Neutral claim rather than shooting in the consensus PoE - was around when Seth was being shot at, but never shot him even though he was at the top of his SoD shotlist. Didn’t shoot cheese because he thinks the slot has good reads against the towncore. She thinks he doesn’t have TMI on the slot (so hes likely not groupscum), but he didn’t want to be responsible for shooting a townie, and he also might shoot a potential scumbud
- Almost TWTBAW, but thinks he would be trying a lot harder if he were town, as he has shown he is capable of that
TLDR: i can fuckin talk to dead people and marshal was trying to save my ass from anticlaim yesterday by faking masons with me
Read the post below. I’m tired of people voting off my wagon and flipping villagers at EoD.
My takeaways from EoD are the following:
- Ici’s EoD was highly villagery. I’m putting him back into the towncore. He actually deliberated and tried to do things instead of just doing random things on the sidelines.
- Leafia sounds really pure throughout. I still think they are a legitimate mason pair (-ish) with Apprentice.
- Zone keeps being anti-town, and while I think that his behavior at EoD was more towny than not (because it was just so dumb to keep going back and forth with Leafia over trivial things), it’s not the type of good villaging I like – and it could still come from a wolf. He didn’t really do anything productive back there. I would still say he’s a villager, but I’m not convinced.
- Marshal’s EoD was hot garbage. He kept dragging on the argument with eevee, then built a “case” on Oblight, then completely forgot it apparently, because he quickhammered a villager. I don’t care about his explanation whatsoever. I think he’s lying. Marshal’s perfectly aware of what he did back there, and he’s firmly out of the towncore by now for being a huge benefit to the wolves yesterday. He could still be a villager who made a mistake, but I’ve had my reservations about the slot earlier (such as having a giant postcount, but little actual direction and solving in proportion, in my opinion), and this only solidified them.
I was trying to wagon Vader and the wagon was completely deserted. Instead everybody piled on Gorta despite the fact he was getting votes too quickly, and despite the fact he was actually trying to help town, unlike the other person being wagoned. I’m not excusing myself here – I do have some responsibility, because I didn’t stop the wagon. However, Marshal cutting off the day made me unable to comment on it, which is why I hated that move so much. Hopefully I’m not biased here, I just don’t think he does something so silly as a villager.
Vader still needs to be resolved, and I’m tempted to shoot him right now, but I think holding my ITA should be more beneficial. I think Vader is still a wolf and nothing he did today has convinced me otherwise. That said, I think it’s time to re-evaluate, like I announced yesterday. Hopefully I’m healed, because I want to be alive to solve this game and this time finally convince you all not to do stupid stuff at EoD. That quickhammer made me facepalm and I almost abandoned all hope.
People like Kyo, who are posting but not really solving, are still alive, and it’s possible that Marshal is a wolf creating mischief in the town. I know that Chloe said that he was almost certainly a villager, but it’s possible they are both flat out lying – especially since we now have a new claimed mason pair between Derps/Oblight. And I believe them completely. I think the way the claim was delivered was really towny, and Derps outing it so late while trying to push Marshal didn’t seem like some weird agenda in light of the flip.
The top wagon was town. Trying to CFD off of it, unless it was a CFD into another villager, was towny. And even if it was another villager, it’s still more towny than not. A wolf would have no need to shift the wagons by pushing a villager and claiming mason to incriminate them. There is absolutely no need to take that risk when the day still ends in a mislynch, given the vote spread and thread direction. So yeah, Derps is just town, like I’ve been saying for the majority of the game, and so is Oblight, like I also said when I first brought forward his lack of TMI.
So where do I stand right now? The only people in the original PoE I have left are Vader (still), Zone (still), possibly eevee. I’d say eevee/Marshal are never W/W, but these are the exact players who could and would engage in wolf theater at EoD, especially since the top wagon was a villager.
Kyo is firmly in the PoE for not bothering to actually solve the whole game, and also because his claim makes no sense. Not only is it a really strong village PR in comparison to the villagers who’ve already flipped, but it’s also the only way he could supposedly be “cleared.” I will say this: Kyo is an FPSer regardless of alignment. Clearing him because he claimed X role is the easiest way to misclear a wolf, ever. This guy claims that he’s the 4th player with X class when the class cap is 3 and there are 3 other existing claims. As a wolf. Just look at the most recent RM4. And he gets away with it because people clear him for it. It’s dumb. Don’t do it. Don’t ever do it.
Marshal needs to be slotted directly into the PoE for that terrible, terrible quickhammer last EoD and his general behavior throughout. It’s like he was more interested in arguing with eevee than actually lynching a wolf, and even though he made a case on Oblight as a result of my request, he still ended up quickhammering gorta just because. Yeah, I am not going to tolerate this whatsoever.
By extension, Chloe should be slotted into the PoE too. Her EoD showcases a narrow look on the game. She’s focused on two things: gorta being scum and Marshal being town, and also on doing VCA. While none of these are directly harmful to the town, I think that she’s struggling to look at the broader picture. I still can’t decide how scummy this is, quite frankly. I have a stronger suspicion of Marshal than the one I have of Chloe. But her lack of evaluation is not a good look, and if it continues despite the fact we’ve been lynching town all the time… then yeah, she’s possibly a wolf who doesn’t care. She’s been hyperfocused on her claim, on Marshal, and on calling the top wagon scum when it was a villager. I don’t think I need to reiterate why these things are scummy. It’s a narrow perspective when we need to look at the game holistically.
My reads now:
Arete
Hippo
Like I said, I’m never re-evaluating there. These two are lock town and they’ve been consistently towny. Godread on Arete says town, and Hippo is great at looking town when he rands V – which is what he randed this game, I’m sure.
Derps
oB_L1ght
Somewhat conditional upon them being masons, but I wholeheartedly believe them as of right now.
Icibalus
PKR
Apprentice
Leafia
I still read them town. Apprentice and Leafia drop if Marshal/Chloe are town (lolmasonclaims). PKR has been rather villagery all game, and just like with Oblight earlier, I don’t think he has TMI (but I can’t be arsed to make a case explaining why that’s true). Icibalus had a highly villagery EoD which mostly removes my suspicion of him, so he’s back up here.
CRichard564
I personally think this is town, but he’s less villagery than the others and a potential deepwolf if he’s really good at mimicking his village play. The only reason I think he’s town is because I don’t think he would be this good at imitation during his first wolfgame. If I’m underestimating him, then I’ll take it. The possibility lingers in my mind, which is why he’s below the people above.
Note: Marshal and Chloe can still be villagers who aren’t thinking straight. Just like EVO was a villager put in an unfortunate position and losing his cool, and like gorta was an awkward, self-aware villager who had no idea how to get out of his situation either. But I can’t just ignore the things the two of them did.
Note 2: If they are both town, then I think I miscleared Apprentice/Leafia. There is no way three mason-like pairs exist in a 24er. Too many cleared town. Either somebody’s being dumb and not considering the posibility of their partner being scum, or there is a fake pair.
TheBlueElixir
Zone_Q11
These two slots are fair game. Gun-to-head I would say that TBE is the wolf, if there is a wolf here. It’s kinda weird how he’s been suspected all game, but never seriously pushed. It reminds me of the pushback against a Seth lynch. I would start an experimental wagon on him just to see if a gorta 2.0 happens (people piling on the wagon just because they can, which is a huge sign of the target being a villager or a wolf who’s being bussed). A note I have here is that no wolf has been properly bussed this game – and if you recall the Seth lynch, you know it’s true.
eevee
A neutral claim, which is why I have him here, almost smack-dab in the middle. I think he’s been more pro-town than most of the villagers, and Marshal’s tinfoil about him fakeclaiming with Light and Derps was just that – a silly tinfoil, because he was tunneled or a wolf pushing some weird agenda.
KyoDaz
I wrote earlier in this post why I think this slot deserves to be shot. That said, considering I suspect Marshal and Marshal was pushing Kyo, it’s possible this is a villager. Possible. But not likely.
Darth_Vader
While I will say that it’s still possible for this to be a wolf, because the wagon on him was weirdly frozen and he did something tantamount to antispew from my perspective, I am re-evaluating now and there are potentially better targets. I still want him dead to resolve yesterday’s wagons unless he becomes blatantly villagery.
Marshal
Chloe
These two are always together unless Chloe made a horrible mistake. I think Marshal hasn’t been good yesterday at all, and there are things about Chloe this game which also bother me to some extent. All in all, I don’t like these two.
This is pretty much where I stand right now, after trying to re-evaluate and looking at the game holistically. Apprentice/Leafia could be wolves conditional on what alignment Chloe and Marshal are. I don’t think Derps/Oblight are ever wolves, unless they pulled a ballsy play with the mason claim at EoD. That said, I don’t know what the wolf motivation for that would be. Not only do I suspect Marshal too, but Derps basically tied himself to someone for the entire game and outed as a mason despite the top wagon being on a villager. As a wolf, he could just… push the villager without claiming, and leave the mason claim for tomorrow if he really wanted to do it.
Shot list (revised):
Zone_Q11
TBE
eevee (Neutral claim. Personally wouldn’t shoot, because we need to flip actual wolves, and he’s been pro-town despite the questionable things he’s said this game. I know I advocated a shot on Italy, but that was back when we could afford it. I don’t think we can do that anymore.)
Darth_Vader (Unless he significantly improves.)
KyoDaz
Chloe
Marshal
Apprentice/Leafia should be shot if Chloe/Marshal are town, because if I compare Oblight/Derps to Apprentice/Leafia, the former are a little townier. Right now, I do read Apprentice/Leafia village, though.
This is pre-written and doesn’t take into account the flips during the night. If they change my view on things, I’ll immediately say so.
Obviously ignore my Marshal tinfoil, and Chloe is like, lock V. But most of the other stuff still applies.
I was protecting you yesterday and defending you yesterday.
Don’t you dare give up on me now.