[SFM] Insurgency: Treason in Jugdral — Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War and Thracia 776 FM Game Thread: Game Over (8/24) — FINALE: Bow Before Loptous — The Loptrian Empire Wins!

[DatBird]

VC

Voted	Votee	Votes
ModeShifer	Chloe, Icibalus	2/13
ClonedCheese	an_gorta_pratai, SirDerpsAlot	2/13
EVO	PokemonKidRyan, CRichard564, Alice, Evil_Ginger, ModeShifter, oB_L1ght, Leafia, Vulgard, Marshal	9/13
Marshal	Eevee	1/13
Italy	Sulit, Hippoyeetus	2/13
Not Voting	KyoDaz, Darth_Vader, Italy, Apprentice, EVO, TheBlueElixir, Centuries, ClonedCheese	8

Hey real shit for my sanity, please ping me for votes that way this makes this process faster. Also lmk if I missed any

[Apprentice]

I don’t believe I ever actually took my vote off of mode @DatBird

[SirDerpsAlot]

Cheese

[TheBlueElixir]

@DatBird

ClonedCheese,

why is there another comma

balderdash that means cloned is scum

[SirDerpsAlot]

I actually really don’t like cheese tone here either

[SirDerpsAlot]

@clonedcheese

@Vulgard

If you think my read/push on ModeShifter is agenda-y / scummy, then I request you to read my case on him. It explains in detail why I find him scummy and why I think he should be shot, if not lynched.

If you’re referencing the massive post you made I have some problems about that as well.

Most importantly, the entire “initial suspicion” portion relies on heavy assumptions on Mode’s part as well as claiming that they are not acting like their “town self.” The joking and cordial tone is no different from how I remember Seth; the only thing missing is them tunneling. However, even Seth doesn’t tunnel that early into the game - there’s just not much evidence to tunnel on. As such, I’m not entirely sure that you fully believe your claim, since the evidence you have cited are not really evidence at all.

Furthermore, I have problems with this:

@Vulgard

He doesn’t come across as trying hard to be nice, he’s coming across as someone who attempts to provide useful insights. Except a villager in his position most likely wouldn’t bother to try too hard.

First of all, most people feel obligated to be helpful when they are lightly pushed on, so this last sentence is just bogus. Additionally, this kind of action is just blatant labelling - rather than trying to look at Seth’s motives, you are simply going with the assumption that Seth is scum. As such, I don’t really see this as an argument for why Seth is scum, but more along the lines of how Seth is scum. In an argument that should be discussing why you think they are scum, you are assuming them to be scum and using that to advance your logic, which would be 1) wrong and 2) potentially indicative of you knowing Seth’s role

This post in particular sounds bad to me

[TheBlueElixir]

between Cheese and EVO, I think a cheese lynch would help him with his APs give more info, but if Cheese is town we might just launch into anarchy

also I trust EVO flipping scum more

[TheBlueElixir]

can you please elaborate which parts

[Vulgard]

@clonedcheese

First of all, most people feel obligated to be helpful when they are lightly pushed on, so this last sentence is just bogus. Additionally, this kind of action is just blatant labelling - rather than trying to look at Seth’s motives, you are simply going with the assumption that Seth is scum. As such, I don’t really see this as an argument for why Seth is scum, but more along the lines of how Seth is scum. In an argument that should be discussing why you think they are scum, you are assuming them to be scum and using that to advance your logic, which would be 1) wrong and 2) potentially indicative of you knowing Seth’s role.

So you think my case on him is me taking my scumread and trying to justify it instead of trying to explain it from the beginning and getting there naturally?

You’re not wrong. I did scumread him already. I re-read his ISO thoroughly to see if I could be wrong. I did that with Hippo and ended up briefly considering him towny. But I didn’t get this with ModeShifter. Instead, what I saw and thought about further reinforced my scumread.

@clonedcheese

Most importantly, the entire “initial suspicion” portion relies on heavy assumptions on Mode’s part as well as claiming that they are not acting like their “town self.” The joking and cordial tone is no different from how I remember Seth; the only thing missing is them tunneling. However, even Seth doesn’t tunnel that early into the game - there’s just not much evidence to tunnel on. As such, I’m not entirely sure that you fully believe your claim, since the evidence you have cited are not really evidence at all.

My scumread doesn’t rely on him acting unlike the typical Seth. It relies on him acting in a forced way. Yes, I do believe it’s forced, and I discussed it at length.

@clonedcheese

First of all, most people feel obligated to be helpful when they are lightly pushed on, so this last sentence is just bogus.

I understand that. However, I think he’s just trying too hard. It’s early suspicion being thrown around, and yet he feels the need to overexplain most of the things he’s doing. And also, when he’s actually trying to be proactive, it still comes across as rather safe and lacking in conviction. Which is a different point, but generally speaking, he just seems unnatural and uncomfortable – to the point where he has to actively prove things to everyone around him instead of being natural.

@clonedcheese

Additionally, this kind of action is just blatant labelling - rather than trying to look at Seth’s motives, you are simply going with the assumption that Seth is scum.

I tried to think about Seth’s actions from the perspective of a villager, and I ended up running into several problems. Most importantly, his overwhelming defensiveness. He’s been defensive for the majority of the game, and it’s such a drastic change that I can’t just ignore it. It’s like he’s scared of playing the game and solving like he wants to. And it really bothers me.

I did read his rebuttal, and I am taking it into consideration here. But I don’t understand why he feels so suffocated. If it’s because of pressure, then sure, maybe a couple of villagers could crumple under it. Amelia comes to mind. But I’ve never considered Seth the type to be so uncomfortable while taking heat as a villager. No matter how much he wants to change his playstyle, I really don’t think it’s in his character to be scared.

His recent posts have been quite a bit better, I will admit. Which is part of the reason why I’m no longer voting him. But his horrendous early game (from my perspective) isn’t something I can just ignore. And considering the known fact that wolves make mistakes early into the day and late into the day, during the moments when it’s the most important for them to not screw up (because the pressure is the greatest), Seth’s abysmal opening string of posts lingers in my mind as extremely telling.

@TheBlueElixir

between Cheese and EVO, I think a cheese lynch would help him with his APs give more info, but if Cheese is town we might just launch into anarchy

also I trust EVO flipping scum more

I’m kinda conflicted between the two of them right now, but I’m not sure if we have enough time for a CFD.

[clonedcheese]

@SirDerpsAlot

This post in particular sounds bad to me

elaborate

[Vulgard]

Also, disclaimer that whatever I say in the game is not intended to be a comment about you as a person, or a critique of your approach to the game (unless I explicitly say it is). We’re playing a game, and because it’s a game, I separate game!y’all and outside-of-game!y’all by default.

Not sure why I’m saying this, because it should be obvious, but there you go.

[CRichard564]

I find it interesting that there is no serious counter wagon right now.
Assuming EVO is scum, they’re trying to avoid looking suspicious and might be voting up EVO for town cred.

[DatBird]

VC

Voted	Votee	Votes
ModeShifer	Chloe, Icibalus, Apprentice	3/13
ClonedCheese	an_gorta_pratai, SirDerpsAlot	2/13
EVO	PokemonKidRyan, CRichard564, Alice, Evil_Ginger, ModeShifter, oB_L1ght, Leafia, Vulgard, Marshal	9/13
Marshal	Eevee	1/13
Italy	Sulit, Hippoyeetus	2/13
Not Voting	KyoDaz, Darth_Vader, Italy, EVO, TheBlueElixir, Centuries, ClonedCheese	7

Hey real shit for my sanity, please ping me for votes that way this makes this process faster. Also lmk if I missed any

[an_gorta_pratai]

I am going to go for a bit, so /vote EVO. I don’t want to quickhammer, but I also want to actually vote today. @DatBird also can y’all not quickhammer while I am away

[Vulgard]

I see a pattern among the highposters.

@CRichard564

I find it interesting that there is no serious counter wagon right now.

Same, especially since we have plurality (?). I’d be down for creating a counterwagon rn.

/vote Leafia @DatBird

Like this one.

[Evil_Ginger]

tinfoil hat activated

[Italy]

light mode
disgusting

[TheBlueElixir]

@DatBird

ClonedCheese

so he was converted

also, Vul, where do you think your ITA will land? take a guess

[SirDerpsAlot]

Cw cheese with me

[DatBird]

VC

Voted	Votee	Votes
ModeShifer	Chloe, Icibalus, Apprentice	3/13
ClonedCheese	SirDerpsAlot	1/13
EVO	PokemonKidRyan, CRichard564, Alice, Evil_Ginger, ModeShifter, oB_L1ght, Leafia, Marshal, an_gorta_pratai	9/13
Marshal	Eevee	1/13
Italy	Sulit, Hippoyeetus	2/13
Leafia	Vulgard	1/13
Not Voting	KyoDaz, Darth_Vader, Italy, EVO, TheBlueElixir, Centuries, ClonedCheese	7

Hey real shit for my sanity, please ping me for votes that way this makes this process faster. Also lmk if I missed any

Ill be back later @N.1 take over VCs if u awake