83, but I can see an argument for up to 87.
I mean, it’s not like they WILL help town, they CAN help town in certain conditions.
Like saulus who can become most likely town, but can also become something else by chance.
Saulus and Judas are dumb roles and it’s best to consider them neutral (i.e. scum because it’s not town) because the proper way to play them involves some degree of playing towards an anti-town win condition.
Not really, we are counting aligment, so if someone picked Judas as aligment (not roles, since we are not considering them), then they start as town.
It doesn’t matter though. Unlike survivor or wildcard, they’re usually not a net positive for town.
Like let’s say if I had
Town roleblocker -> Picked roleblocker
Judas -> Picked aligment
Mafia goon -> Discarded
I would just end up being standard town roleblocker.
The way that Judas and Saulus work if the host is handling them correctly is that the players have to play to their win condition at any time. They’re actively miserable roles for both the person playing them and everyone else for this exact reason: Someone has to work against the win condition they play towards in a separate section of the game.
Or would I end up Judas roleblocker?
huh.
I’m rpetty sure Judas should be considered a role, not aligment.
Nah, because their role is still mason. They’d just become a false mason. There’s a ton of possibilities for that throughout the setup.
Same with Judas/Saulus/Mafia IC. They can be an IC as scum outside of WoTM.
I mean, if Judas is considered an aligment, then they cannot be massoned with town anyway.
And if it’s considered role, then they cannot get mason, cause it would be second role.
Either way, it wouldn’t really matter.
It’s not.
Masons only can have people of same aligment as masons.
There cannot be mafia/town masonry.
I’m firmly comfortable with eliminating along my PoE right now.
Until further reevaluation becomes sensible:
Apprentice -> Tsumugi -> Whysper -> Ami/ClonedCheese -> Ami/ClonedCheese -> Gorta