SFoL 58 Balance Talk Thread Revamped

The Champion :crossed_swords: :shield:

Hand of Byzantium Killer
I am the Hand (Passive) - If you were a previous class before becoming the Champion, choose one limited use ability with 2 or more starting uses from any of your previous classes and gain it again as the Champion, with one fewer use than it began with in its original class. If you did not have any limited use abilities with two or more uses in any of your previous classes, then this passive does not apply.
Swift Swipe (Day) - Targeted player will bleed and die in 2 nights unless healed. - 3 uses (shared)
Corpse Swap (Day) - Choose a player. If you successfully kill them tonight, they will flip as a class of your choice with a logbook of your choosing or an empty logbook. (1 use)
Merciless Attack (Night) - Attack a player with the might of your blade - Infinite uses.
Supreme Strike (Night) - Attack two players in the same night. - 1 use. (shared)
Defeat the Unseen and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Aaa you’re going for the flip tailor idea :smiley:
Does this mean the Heroine becomes occ/red immune? :eyes:

The Heroine :crossed_swords: :shield:

Blue Dragon Killer
Hero’s Blessing (Passive) - You are occupy and redirection immune.
Vengeance (Day) - Your attack will pierce night immunity tonight. - 0 uses, Gains 1 use for each dead member of the Blue Dragon.
Slit Skin (Day) - Targeted player will bleed and die in 2 nights unless healed. - 3 uses (shared)
Eliminate (Night) - Kill a target player if they are a member of the Unseen. If they are a neutral, they will instead be occupied. You will know which happened. - Infinite uses.
Valiant Smite (Call to Arms | Night) - Kill a target player, regardless of faction, bypassing any and all forms of immunity and protection. You will take their journal, making it appear as though they didn’t leave one, and you will be able to read it. - 2 uses. (shared)
Defeat the Unseen and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Sorry peerless confidant was meant to be just one use

Or should I replace scout with that

Okay, if it’s just one use, I think it’s alright and can be kept.

The Visionary :crossed_swords: :shield:

Blue Dragon Special
Impenetrable Guard - Death Immune at Night.
Undercover Rebel (Passive) (Starting Visionary Only) - You will appear as a class of your choice which you can inform the host at the start of the game which you would like for to investigators. You are fully immune to all investigative abilities for the entire game and will always appear as your desired class to investigators.
Path of Leadership (Passive) - If you are the original or second Visionary and die, the youngest non killing Blue Dragon member will become the new Visionary. If there is no non Killing Blue Dragons, it will instead be the Youngest Blue Dragon Killer. There can always be a second and third visionary unless the current visionary dies as the last member of the Blue Dragon. A fourth visionary will never happen, however.
Avenge (Day) - You will turn into the Heroine when you use this ability. Target Blue Dragon player will become the new Visionary. - 1 use (shared) - Cannot use when any Blue Dragon Killers are living
Call to Arms! (Day) - Call the Blue Dragon to arms, empowering them tonight. The Blue Dragon will receive a message when this is activated. The individual effects can be found on each class card. - Infinite Uses, 2 day cooldown.
Persuade (Night) - Persuade someone to join the Blue Dragon. - Infinite uses, 1 day cooldown, except to convert a fourth member to the Blue Dragon, in which case that is a two day cooldown.
*Defeat the Unseen and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

The Arbiter :crossed_swords: :shield:

Hand of Byzantium Special
Battle-Tested (Passive) - Immune to every possible form of death except a lynch. You cannot be killed even by the duke. This passive is a form of supreme protection that overrules death immunity bypassing attacks. If the Duke attempts to execute you, he will fail and instead the champion will counterattack, unleashing a bonus strike onto the duke which bypasses any and all forms of healing and protection in addition to their normal night action. There will be at least one hour each time between EoN and SoD; if this occurs, you will have that period available to replace the Duke’s logs with whatever you would like or nothing at all.
Imperial Pledge (Passive) - You are entirely immune to all forms of occupation and redirection for the entire game. You keep this passive even if you choose to become the Champion or become elected as a Purified King. You also cannot be imprisoned by the duke. If the duke attempts to imprison you, he will think he has imprisoned you and you will be able to send a message to each other, but you will not actually be occupied.
Inside Seclusion (Passive) - You will appear as a class of your choice which you can inform the host at the start of the game or when you are promoted to the arbiter which you would like for to investigators. This class can be any class in the game, even any prestige class. You are fully immune to all investigative abilities for the entire game (or entire rest of the game if you are the second arbiter) and will always appear as your desired class to investigators. You may choose one day ability from any class in the game besides the Duke, Warden, Sheriff, Agent, or any BD classes to add to your classcard, either at the start of the game for the first Arbiter or when you become the Arbiter for the second. Additionally, if you are the original Arbiter and die, if and ONLY IF the current Champion is the original champion or was promoted from a Socialite, they will become the new Arbiter. The only exception to this is a Socialite who will automatically become the new Arbiter before the Champion and the Magistrate who will do so if and only if they utilized a one-shot day ability and the Arbiter is lynched during the day. Otherwise, there will not be a second arbiter, and there can never be a third Arbiter.
Imperial Urgency (Day) - Become the Champion at the start of the night; if there is a current champion, if they are the original champion, they will become the new Arbiter; if not, they will become their convert class again. Cannot be used before day 4. - One use
Entrust (Night) - Convince someone to join the Hand of Byzantium. - Infinite uses, Cannot Convert Night 1, then a two-day cooldown after the first conversion succeeds, then a one-day cooldown for every conversion attempt after that.
Imperial Judgment (Night) - Target a player. You may force them to target another, or force them to target themselves. If they target themselves, they will instead be occupied. You will also know who visits them. - Infinite Uses
Defeat the Unseen and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

The Marshal :shield:

Unseen Investigative
Scout (Day) - Your scout will inform you whether a particular player has been visited by a a member of the Blue Dragon or the Hand of Byzantum tonight and the faction of the player that visited your target if so. This ability can never detect the Visionary or the Arbiter. - Infinite Uses
Peerless Confidant (Day) - Employ your most trusted confidant to keep watch on two players at once tonight. This confidant will tell you if either or both player is visited by a member of the Blue Dragon or the Hand of Byzantum tonight and the faction of the player(s) that visited your target(s) if so. This ability can never detect the Visionary or the Arbiter. - One Use
Expert Investigation (Night) - If a player is a member of the Blue Dragon or Hand of Byzantum, learn their faction. This ability can never detect the Visionary or the Arbiter. - Infinite Uses
Case Closed (Night) - Very carefully examine two players at once tonight. If either or both of them is/are a member of the Blue Dragon or Hand of Byzantum, learn their exact class(es). This ability can never detect the Visionary or the Arbiter. - One Use
Defeat the Blue Dragon or Hand of Byzantum and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

Arbiter’s passives together have almost 2000 characters :joy:

I think the converted versions of Marshal are still alright. Sufficiently strong and can still pretend they’re not converted.

The Visionary :crossed_swords: :shield:

Blue Dragon Special
Impenetrable Guard - Death Immune at Night.
Undercover Rebel (Passive) (Starting Visionary Only) - You will appear as a class of your choice which you can inform the host at the start of the game which you would like for to investigators. You are fully immune to all investigative abilities for the entire game and will always appear as your desired class to investigators.
Path of Leadership (Passive) - If you are the original or second Visionary and die, the youngest non killing Blue Dragon member will become the new Visionary. If there is no non Killing Blue Dragons, it will instead be the Youngest Blue Dragon Killer. There can always be a second and third visionary unless the current visionary dies as the last member of the Blue Dragon. A fourth visionary will never happen, however.
Avenge (Day) - You will turn into the Heroine when you use this ability. Target Blue Dragon player will become the new Visionary. - 1 use (shared) - Cannot use when any Blue Dragon Killers are living
Call to Arms! (Day) - Call the Blue Dragon to arms, empowering them tonight. The Blue Dragon will receive a message when this is activated. The individual effects can be found on each class card. - Infinite Uses, 2 day cooldown.
Persuade (Night) - Persuade someone to join the Blue Dragon. - Infinite uses, Cannot Convert Night 1, then a two-day cooldown after the first conversion succeeds, then a one-day cooldown for every conversion attempt after that.
Defeat the Unseen and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

fixed the conversion rules

1 Like

I would merge these two.

Battle-Tested (Passive) - You are immune to every possible form of death except a lynch, including all attacks that bypass immunity. You are also occupation and redirection immune even if you become the Champion or become elected as a Purified King. If the Duke attempts to imprison you, he will think he has imprisoned you and you will be able to send a message to each other, but you will not be occupied and visits to you will not be prevented. You may also write a fake logbook when imprisoned. If the Duke attempts to execute you, he will fail and the Champion will automatically attack him in addition to his night action, bypassing all forms of healing and protection if the Duke has any. If you wrote a fake logbook while imprisoned, it will be revealed instead of the Duke’s real logbook and you will obtain access to the Duke’s original logbook.

Remove this please no one likes pretender

The Arbiter :crossed_swords: :shield:

Hand of Byzantium Special
Battle-Tested (Passive) - You are immune to every possible form of death except a lynch, including all attacks that bypass immunity. You are also occupation and redirection immune even if you become the Champion or become elected as a Purified King. If the Duke attempts to imprison you, he will think he has imprisoned you and you will be able to send a message to each other, but you will not be occupied and visits to you will not be prevented. You may also write a fake logbook when imprisoned. If the Duke attempts to execute you, he will fail and the Champion will automatically attack him in addition to his night action, bypassing all forms of healing and protection if the Duke has any. If you wrote a fake logbook while imprisoned, it will be revealed instead of the Duke’s real logbook and you will obtain access to the Duke’s original logbook.
Inside Seclusion (Passive) - You will appear as a class of your choice which you can inform the host at the start of the game or when you are promoted to the arbiter which you would like for to investigators. This class can be any class in the game, even any prestige class. You are fully immune to all investigative abilities for the entire game (or entire rest of the game if you are the second arbiter) and will always appear as your desired class to investigators. You may choose one day ability from any class in the game besides the Duke, Warden, Sheriff, Agent, or any BD classes to add to your classcard, either at the start of the game for the first Arbiter or when you become the Arbiter for the second. Additionally, if you are the original Arbiter and die, if and ONLY IF the current Champion is the original champion or was promoted from a Socialite, they will become the new Arbiter. The only exception to this is a Socialite who will automatically become the new Arbiter before the Champion and the Magistrate who will do so if and only if they utilized a one-shot day ability and the Arbiter is lynched during the day. Otherwise, there will not be a second arbiter, and there can never be a third Arbiter.
Imperial Urgency (Day) - Become the Champion at the start of the night; if there is a current champion, if they are the original champion, they will become the new Arbiter; if not, they will become their convert class again. Cannot be used before day 4. - One use
Entrust (Night) - Convince someone to join the Hand of Byzantium. - Infinite uses, Cannot Convert Night 1, then a two-day cooldown after the first conversion succeeds, then a one-day cooldown for every conversion attempt after that.
Imperial Judgment (Night) - Target a player. You may force them to target another, or force them to target themselves. If they target themselves, they will instead be occupied. You will also know who visits them. - Infinite Uses
Defeat the Unseen and any neutrals that seek to do you harm.

1 Like

Pretender is fine if their goal is just to become king. Survive wincons suck

No pretender is a bad class, survive wincons are fine Lmao.

Neutrals are swingy survive wincon or not.

Why is it bad? And does that mean it would be bad in FOL?

I like all Neutrals.