SFoL 61.5 - Fortress of the Dark Deity (4/16) - Complete - The Unseen, Guardian, and Senex win!

[anon97870008]

ootcount

Votee	Voted By	Votes	Tags
CRichard	Italy, clonedcheese	2/8	Anstreim, TheBlueElixir
Appelsiini	Jane, ModeShifter, Intensify	3/8	Jane, ModeShifter
an_gorta_pratai	SirDerpsAlot, Arete	2/8	x
Jane	x	0/8	SirDerpsAlot, Vulgard
Intensify	x	0/8	CRichard564
Italy	x	0/8	katze
Anstreim	x	0/8	Arete
Vulgard	Napoleon, Vulgard	2/8	x

[katze]

katze catches up v3 or something: is anyone even here edition

@an_gorta_pratai

I have been trying to solve? Why do you think I brought up my concerns about reviving Alice? Why have I been trying to even say what I think about people?

i dont think thats trying to solve

@an_gorta_pratai

I think that even if we assume that Appel is the NK that tomorrow we should be down a NK, a wolf, and a possible other wolf.

okay if we assume you’re the NK we can just lynch you

why should we assume appel is the NK

do you have any reason to think this other than what napoleon said?

@an_gorta_pratai

In my opinion Appel is still possible W/W with CRich if he is groupscum, but I also think she could be NK (which wouldn’t be a bad lynch), or village.

“theyre wolf, town, or NK” isn’t solving

@TheBlueElixir

im voting CRich

@SirDerpsAlot

Jail exe good

@TheBlueElixir

Jail exe good

/unvote

i cant tell if i should see something in this interaction or not

@Napoleon

Arete is NK or town at this point. Never groupscum.

i can agree with that assessment

when i ISOed them during N1 i didn’t think they were likely starting groupscum

@Napoleon

Unless converted but I don’t think so? They were active as SoD

i don’t think arete has been pushing more agenda on D2, theyre not someone i think has high convert equity even if they’re a player who makes for a good convert as evidenced by fol24

@Arete

so which neut do you think is fake then

we have a literal self resolving neut claim, we can find out which neut is fake in scumneut!CRich worls

there is a guaranteed nk/groupscum in intensify/crich/seth and one has a “im neither of those things” buttons and one is playing from a standpoint where i likely believe their claim

which just leaves crich

@Marshal

@Vulgard

VULGOD ILY

@Vulgard

does anyone know if anstreim busses as scum?

i mean in ToL hes not unfamiliar with the concept and powerwolfs fairly well

but this isn’t ToL and i don’t know if it’d apply 1:1, if hes groupscum then he hard bussed crich

@Vulgard

too many emojis

is this a serious way of reading arete

@Vulgard

also cloned is either legitimate scorned or town
not sure how accurate the towntell i’ve found for him actually is but that’s what i think rn

im not really responding to this individual read

but my expert opinion is telling me vulgard is town

i scrolled down like 3 posts and i found my take is very hot /s

@Vulgard

also it’s Intensity

can we lynch the neut claims pls

i think if it comes down to a wolf we cant find, maybe? but i think their ISO is pretty blatantly from an alch pov

@Vulgard

why do we think katze isn’t bullshitting about the bleed

i mean if worst comes to worst i die tonight to it if its a frostweaver game (which would mean derps was healed n1)

i’d rather not die for reasons ill explain in allies chat

@Vulgard

can chloe replace into the game so she can tell me what alignment katze rolled this game?

me and her would become gaysons and then one of us would die probably

@Vulgard

Not really taking a stance on CRich here yet. I think the implication is “kinda scummy but was also weird as town so perhaps null in the end.”

you are correct in your implication

@Vulgard

And then… nyoom. Jump to this.

…that is a joke you are responding to. a very obvious joke.

@Vulgard

Like, this entire section is unnecessary.

have you seen me in any game ever?

@Vulgard

The bleed targets this game are pure lolwolves unless they came from town. Derps d1? Katze d2?
What.

which is why i kind of think i was bled by a frostweaver since im kind of unlikely to be healed tonight; its just free KP

groupscum maybe? but that’d be quite a lolbleed

@Vulgard

Who can be accredited with catching CRich initially? I think Arete gets the most credit for that, from what I could read.

i mean anstreim did a RT that made them contradict themselves multiple times

i also RTed them and got even worse contradictions but at that time they were basically guaranteed nontown so i don’t think i deserve towncred for it

in terms of D1 then arete probably, yeah

@Vulgard

Bold statement: I think I can figure out katze’s alignment based on the read on CRich alone.

id say my read on crich + my interactions with him D2 would probably give you a decent indication that i’m not a wolf but a lot of my d2 interactions with him were after he was basically outted so a world where im groupscum bussing him isn’t a super unreasonable one to believe we’re in

but i’d be a bit offended if you think i’d let him start off D2 with “lol, my D1 was a RT” after how ive played groupscum in other games

hell, like i said to anstreim before, i’m generally attempting to do all of the nightplans and prevent people from being stupid in scumchat. RM4 scumchat is a decent example of this, when im not joking around im pretty productive. there’s a link to it in my ISO if you care to look through it, look for the post quoted by wazza

[katze]

@anon97870008

|Vulgard|Napoleon, Vulgard|0/8|x

oh god oh fuck napoleon and vulgard got mindstormed

[an_gorta_pratai]

@katze

i dont think thats trying to solve

How is posting reads regarding peoples alignments and putting out input about ideas being presented not solving? It’s contributing and generally is going towards solving the game.

@katze

okay if we assume you’re the NK we can just lynch you

why should we assume appel is the NK

do you have any reason to think this other than what napoleon said?

I am not the only one that thinks Appel has NK equity. Most of my reads are largely gut reads and it’s hard to put them into words, but I think it’s entirely possible.

@katze

“theyre wolf, town, or NK” isn’t solving

That was me admitting that I might have made my initial read with a bit of haste and got a bad result due to being tired. I can be wrong and sometimes I am. There are also times that I am a bit obsessive and go too far down a tunnel. Do you get what I mean? I was paranoid and focused on a potential cult in bastard++ and it took me a bit to calm down and get out of that paranoia, but when I did it allowed me to focus on other elements of the game.

[katze]

@an_gorta_pratai

How is posting reads regarding peoples alignments and putting out input about ideas being presented not solving? It’s contributing and generally is going towards solving the game.

i was specifically talking about your example, discussing whether or not an apostle should revive alice isn’t exactly solving the game

but i also must have skimmed past the “saying what i think about people” part because i was trying to reread fast while still waking up, my b

@an_gorta_pratai

I am not the only one that thinks Appel has NK equity. Most of my reads are largely gut reads and it’s hard to put them into words, but I think it’s entirely possible.

i know you’re not the only one, i was just curious if you had any reason to think it that wasn’t just a gut read

@an_gorta_pratai

That was me admitting that I might have made my initial read with a bit of haste and got a bad result due to being tired. I can be wrong and sometimes I am. There are also times that I am a bit obsessive and go too far down a tunnel. Do you get what I mean? I was paranoid and focused on a potential cult in bastard++ and it took me a bit to calm down and get out of that paranoia

well that makes more sense

@an_gorta_pratai

but when I did it allowed me to focus on other elements of the game.

have you had any significant changes of opinion (minus appelsiini) since you’ve started focusing more on the game?

[an_gorta_pratai]

I should be in bed and will answer this tomorrow in another classic lolgorta wallpost

[Italy]

i should be in bed too but sleeping’s for nerds

[Vulgard]

@CRichard564

At this stage of the game? Not buying it. I remember your “red check” on me last game we had.

@katze

“at this stage of the game” is very peculiar wording - if he’s town then he would know any redchecks are false unless it’s something like a maid damsel incompatible check (which has plausible truth)
but the default response to “redcheck” would be to assume it’s probably a cop check, right?

Completely neutral assessment at first (orange). A bit of a strange angle to approach this from, though. I don’t think it’s something a wolf would normally use to inform their read, which means it’s strange that katze points this out. If katze is a wolf, they used a very… unique thought here, which I don’t think they would have as scum.

Why do I think it’s a unique thought? Because I believe that 99% of wolves wouldn’t care about CRichard’s definition of a redcheck here. They would use something else to push him on / fabricate a read about. This shows a willingness to delve deep into CRich’s mindset at a level which doesn’t seem necessary to consider as a wolf.

@katze

@CRichard564

We can only hope.

@CRichard564

Actually you are right Italy.

@CRichard564

I can’t argue against that.

these posts read as a lot more stoic than his posting in ToSFM2, they’re just observations as opposed to his own thoughts

Neutral assessment, meaning both alignments could write this. It’s true, though. I agree with it.

@katze

@CRichard564

Nope still town pepe hands.

i dont think this post is AI i just find their use of pepe hands hilarious

Unnecessary to mention. Not sure if alignment indicative.

@katze

@CRichard564

As I said before Derps is taking this game more seriously than last game. He could be telling the truth about being a Mercenary.

@CRichard564

Ans do we have any reason to think even if he’s a mercenary that his targets are town right now?

We have no idea at this point.

although these two seem about in line from what ive seen in his town games

I think the consideration of two worlds (CRich scum / CRich town) is a good look. It displays a willingness to accept both instead of starting with a conclusion and running through his ISO then. That would be a read based on a preconceived notion, which comes from scum far more frequently than it does from town.

@katze

@CRichard564

Lets hear it right now Arete. Seeing that he already has a negative impression of me.

@CRichard564

It’s interesting that Arete admits he’s confbiasing, yet he thinks my tone is off. I was suspected for the same reasons last game was I not?

@CRichard564

Well seeing that I’m scum read again for acting as I do, that’s no surprise at this point.

@CRichard564

I have a habit of being scum read in my town games. This game is no surprise as of now.

this frustration reads as genuine, but i don’t know if i find that massively AI (i know arete was partially clearing him for it) for the sole reason that crichard has been actively seeking a wolf game for quite a while now, and if he were scumread early in his first wolf game i could see him being unhappy about it
but being scumread as town is also not the best feeling
he’s really drawing this home though, and my gut doesn’t like that but my brain doesn’t think its AI
but again, this kind of lines up with ToSFM2 where he was pretty unhappy with marshal for shading him

I really like this whole paragraph. The thought process is pretty transparent. You could interpret this as extreme hedging, but I think katze would be far more self-aware about this as scum. You look at this post as scum and go “I take no stances here, I meander and go back and forth, I should stop and decide what the read is.” A wolf on katze’s level definitely considers this. But I don’t think the katze in this game cares about it at all. Not only is the thought process transparent, the read here also considers multiple worlds and aspects. I definitely agree with the assessment, I think it’s not easy to distinguish between town!CRichard getting angry over suspicion and scum!CRichard doing the exact same thing, especially when we don’t have any meta evidence. All we can do is consider multiple worlds, which is what katze is doing here.

I also think this paragraph happens to show how much katze cares about their read. I think that they wouldn’t care as much as a wolf, and they would probably use fewer words to talk about it instead of delving so deep. Which is why I believe there is a distinct solvey motivation here, instead of “I have to talk about this so I look like I’m productive” motivation.

@katze

and he goes on for a bit in that game about it
so actually i think “meta” is an okay look here but the whole “crichard has never had a wolf game” means using meta to read him is probably even worse than usual (meta bad, btw, someone please quote this as the only thing you read from this entire wallpost because its the only part that matters and itd prove someones actually reading this)
but it has precedent which is a better look

They even went and looked up a game to inform their read, considered it, then actually started to lean town on CRich despite the thread consensus, but they are also uncertain… darn, there is so much about this read I like. I believe the thought process wholeheartedly.

I think I don’t need to go into any other parts of that post. The read started out neutral, but once katze got into the “meat” of it, they showed a distinctly villagery thought process with no rigid thinking whatsoever. They think something, go there, go back, evaluate, consider and flip, consider and flip. There’s no agenda whatsoever. It’s just katze doing a solving thing.

@katze

(meta bad, btw, someone please quote this as the only thing you read from this entire wallpost because its the only part that matters and itd prove someones actually reading this)

And this little snippet made me chuckle. It also suggests that katze doesn’t actually care about what this post looks like to other people. Which is consistent with the impression I get from it. They aren’t focused on making a good-looking wallpost, they are focused on trying to resolve CRich based on what they know, with 0 TMI and 0 agenda, using every tool they have available in their town arsenal. Yeah. This is near-certainly town.

[Vulgard]

Dammit, Anstreim’s here. I’m sorry for using colors. You can lynch me for it.

[katze]

am i allowed to say that in 1 post you’ve done more than gaja did all game or is that a given

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

And this little snippet made me chuckle. It also suggests that katze doesn’t actually care about what this post looks like to other people. Which is consistent with the impression I get from it. They aren’t focused on making a good-looking wallpost, they are focused on trying to resolve CRich based on what they know, with 0 TMI and 0 agenda, using every tool they have available in their town arsenal. Yeah. This is near-certainly town.

And by the way, I’m uncertain about CRich as well, although I believe that the RT thing does make me put him at the bottom of the PoE because of how rigid it felt.

[katze]

i mean he literally claimed scum now

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

I’m uncertain about CRich

@Vulgard

at the bottom of the PoE

I am a liar.

[Vulgard]

@katze

am i allowed to say that in 1 post you’ve done more than gaja did all game or is that a given

Didn’t Gaja 0-post?

[katze]

@Vulgard

I am a liar.

town doesn’t lie
vulgard lie
vulgard not town
vulgard scoom

katze katze katze katze

@Vulgard

Didn’t Gaja 0-post?

thats the joke

[katze]

also you’re the only person who quoted that snippet which gives me the impression you’re the only person who actually read that wallpost

which is a tiny bit disheartening given i spent 2~ hours writing it when i was tired as heck

[Vulgard]

@Vulgard

They even went and looked up a game to inform their read, considered it, then actually started to lean town on CRich despite the thread consensus, but they are also uncertain… darn, there is so much about this read I like. I believe the thought process wholeheartedly.

I think I don’t need to go into any other parts of that post. The read started out neutral, but once katze got into the “meat” of it, they showed a distinctly villagery thought process with no rigid thinking whatsoever. They think something, go there, go back, evaluate, consider and flip, consider and flip. There’s no agenda whatsoever. It’s just katze doing a solving thing.

I’m having a Seth moment where I’m completely confident about my read before I’m done with what I originally planned to do. I don’t want to force myself to verbalize my thoughts about everything else katze has written, I just think they are definitely town based on this d2 read.

[Vulgard]

@katze

also you’re the only person who quoted that snippet which gives me the impression you’re the only person who actually read that wallpost

Well, I used it to put you above/below null, because analytical/high-effort posts are good for this.

@katze

which is a tiny bit disheartening given i spent 2~ hours writing it when i was tired as heck

I can tell.

[Vulgard]

/unvote

[Italy]

blame him for using light theme :^)