SFoL 64: Duel of the Juggernauts discussion and balance thread

[Vulgard]

The only wolf Arbiter can’t check/kill is the lost wolf until they join the factional chat. Everyone else is fair game.
I think this works.

Also, the new framing actually works wonders. I can’t wait for someone to get mislynched over this.

[TheBlueElixir]

@TheBlueElixir

direct alignment checks framing

would framing affect the number-of-abils-left checker and the watchman?

[Amelia]

Mislynch
The Elder

[TheBlueElixir]

elder getting framed by the syndicate pog

anti claim cant affect wrong claims, right?

[Amelia]

Anti claim doesn’t work on incorrect claims because the Syndicate has to say what they think the target’s class is.

[Vulgard]

It looks like there’s a ton of HoB, but Syndicate has high KP. Anticlaim is 1, factional is 2, Templar has a vig, Elder has a dayvig… yeah.

@Amelia

Mislynch
The Elder

You joke, but if Elder gets themselves framed by this new effect Harbinger has, the groupscum will know this (the Elder visit notification) and the Elder might get accidentally outed because of it, with the Syndicate fully knowing why it happened and unable to do anything. That would be super funny.

[Vulgard]

I like the Syndicate’s passives which work on their visitors, because it’s neat wifom and high-risk, high-reward.

[Geyde]

@TheBlueElixir

with anti-claim being class the second one is a lot stronger then the first

if you do the math on actuary it on average ends up being completely busted

[Amelia]

I mean I’ve never actually seen an actuary in game

[Geyde]

@N.1

The Confessor

Syndicate Investigative
Syndicate’s Watchmen (Passive) - At the end of each night, you automatically learn the names of all classes that visited you. If you were visited more than once by the same class, the name of that class will appear several times, corresponding to the number of visits from that class.
Contrition (Passive) - If you perform the factional kill, it will not count as a visit.
Omniscience (Day) - Choose another member of the Syndicate . At the beginning of the night, you will learn if any other day abilities were used on them and who used them, but not what they were. (3 uses)
Eyes of the Syndicate (Day) - Choose one player for each living member of the Syndicate . At the end of the coming night, if you are alive, you will learn which of those players visited a member of the Syndicate during the night, but not which member was visited. (2 uses)
Confession (Night) - Learn a player’s class and how many remaining uses of limited abilities they have. You will also learn their current logs, if they have any.
Vigil (Night) - Learn who a player visited tonight and who visited them. (3 uses)
Defeat the Hand of Byzantium .

8 limited use abilities
This is a super damning check

@N.1

The Templar

Syndicate Killer
In Nomine Dei (Passive) - If you perform the factional kill, you will always bypass night immunity and protective effects. You may also use both Purge the Sinners and Faith and Steel on the same day.
Purge the Sinners (Day) - Choose two players. Make one of them start bleeding, and make another think they started bleeding. The true bleeding will kill the target in two nights if they are not healed. The fake bleeding will inform the player that they were bled as normal, but it will have no effect. (3 uses)
Faith and Steel (Day) - Kill yourself and target player in broad daylight. Nothing will be able to stop this. (1 use)
Divine Retribution (Night) - Only available on even nights. Attack a player who voted you at any point during the previous day. You do not receive bonuses from In Nomine Dei while using this ability.
Massacre (Night) - If you perform the factional kill tonight, you will also kill all of your target’s visitors. You do not receive bonuses from In Nomine Dei while using this ability. (1 use)
Defeat the Hand of Byzantium .

5 limited use abilities
Mostly safe but w/e

@N.1

The Zealot

Syndicate Offensive
Fanatical Zeal (Passive) - You are occupation and redirection immune. If anyone attempts to occupy or redirect you, you will be immediately informed. If you manage to redirect a player onto killing another, you will be informed and you will a gain a stack of Zeal . You can spend Zeal stacks during the night to occupy a player as an additional, separate night action. This night action still counts as a visit.
Overwhelming Aura (Passive) - At the end of each night, you automatically learn who was successfully occupied, redirected, or prevented from visiting. Additionally, if you perform the factional kill , you occupy your target before attacking them.
Force of Conviction (Day) - Choose two players. If the first player uses a day ability today, it will be redirected to the second player. If you choose the same player twice, they will be occupied until the end of the day instead. (3 uses)
Mirror of Faith (Day) - Choose a player. All other day actions used on them today will be automatically redirected to their users. You cannot target yourself. (3 uses)
Might of Conviction (Night) - Choose two players. The first player will be redirected to the second. If you choose the same player twice, you will occupy them instead. You are only seen visiting the first player you choose.
Works of Zeal (Night) - Swap two players. Every other player targeting one of them tonight will be redirected to the other, bypassing redirection immunity. You cannot target yourself. (2 uses)
Defeat the Hand of Byzantium .

8 limited use abilities

@N.1

The Archon

Syndicate Social
Influence and Affluence (Passive) - During King elections, all votes for you from members of the Hand of Byzantium count as three. As long as you are alive, if votes are tied between two or more players at the end of the day and one of those players is a member of the Syndicate , the random selection of who is lynched will never choose the Syndicate member.
Grand Archbishop (Passive) - As long as you are alive, all dead Syndicate members can still speak in the Syndicate chat. You may use both Mental Restructuring and Rapture during the same day. Additionally, if you perform the factional kill , your vote will secretly count as two during the following day if there are eleven or more players alive.
Mental Restructuring (Day) - Link the minds of two players other than yourself. Tonight, they will be able to talk to each other until the end of the night. At the end of the night, they will be removed from their chat and you will be added to it.
Rapture (Day) - Choose a player other than yourself. If they are lynched today, their class and logs will not be revealed. However, they will be revealed in the Syndicate chat. When you die, the class and logs of that player will be revealed alongside yours. (1 use)
Scales of the Syndicate (Night) - Choose two players other than yourself. Tomorrow, one fewer vote will be required to lynch the first player and one more vote will be required to lynch the second player. Both effects are silent.
Pearly Gates (Night) - Choose a dead Syndicate member whose identity was not hidden by Rapture and bring them back to life until the end of the next day. It will be publicly announced that the Syndicate revived [player] for one final day. They will not be able to vote, and they will not count toward parity, but they will be able to post a total of 50 times and they will be able to use their day abilities as normal. They will also count as alive for the purpose of the Syndicate ’s abilities, such as the Confessor ’s Eyes of the Syndicate . (1 use)
Defeat the Hand of Byzantium .

2 limited use abilities
Actually kind of hurts their claimspace

@N.1

The Elder

Syndicate Special
Alpha and Omega (Passive) - Despite being a member of the Syndicate , you do not know who the other members are and they do not know who you are. You also do not have access to their factional chat or any of their factional actions, but at the start of each day, you are informed about the current Reshape Reality effect the Syndicate activated last night. If at least half of the living Syndicate members (rounded up) have received a notification about the Elder investigating them at any point during the game, you will automatically join their chat when that condition is met. From that point forward, you will also have access to the factional abilities of the Syndicate .
Immaculate (Passive) - You are occupation immune both during the night and during the day. You are also night immune, and you appear to investigators as a member of the Hand of Byzantium , including the Arbiter . If a member of the Syndicate tries to attack you, you will be notified and gain a use of Righteous Wrath . You lose this passive when you are added to the factional chat.
Righteous Wrath (Day) - Kill a player in broad daylight. If you are not in the Syndicate factional chat, you gain a use of this ability whenever you discover a member of the Syndicate with Gaze of the Seer . - 0 uses.
Second Wind (Conditional Day/Night) - Choose any ability of a dead Syndicate member. If you are using Second Wind during the day, you may choose a day ability; if you are using it during the night, you may choose a night ability. After choosing the ability, use it on any eligible target/targets of your choice. You may only use each ability once per game. This ability never counts as a visit.
Gaze of the Seer (Night) - Learn if a player is a member of the Syndicate , bypassing framing and tailoring effects. If they are, they will be informed that the Elder successfully investigated them last night.
Defeat the Hand of Byzantium .

0 limited use abilities

[Geyde]

it should be feared
it has disgustingly strong n1 / n2 invest capabilities

[Geyde]

afterwards it kind of sucks
but whatever

[Amelia]

theres a reason why actuary only knows “more than 2” or “2 or less” given syndicates abils

[Geyde]

Templar / harbinger are only ones not absolutely wrecked by Actuary check early on

[Amelia]

Why is Confessor damned but Templar isn’t? They would show the same result

[Geyde]

wait
this is the actuary that counts ability uses right

[Geyde]

I eval’d a very similar class for another game and found it to be busted

[Amelia]

Actuary here will only know if they have more or less than 2

[Geyde]

@N.1

Inventory (Night) - Choose a player and learn how many remaining uses they have for all of their abilities total. You will either learn that there are “more than 2 uses” or “2 or fewer uses.” Infinite-use abilities count as zero.

oh
I can’t fucking read

[Amelia]

So it counts them
But it’s a lot more vague