Icibalus:
The only interesting thing I’ll note is that Hjasik’s read on Math’s reasoning feels a bit out-of-character, as the reasoning feels like an odd mix between Level 1 and Level 2 thoughts, if that makes sense.
I don’t think it makes her anything more than slightly >rand wolf, however, and Hjasik is a self-resolving slot in almost every case.
Icibalus:
I also think it’s a bad idea to read Math early on from experience; their tone is identical as both alignments and I find that until they have a sufficient amount of information, since they resolve their fake reads near-identically to their real ones it’s impossible to tell agenda from Math being wrong.
What I’m saying is: Knock it off unless you’re somehow 100% certain in each other’s allignments already. This isn’t going to produce anything good for us.
Icibalus:
Re: Mix of Level 1 and Level 2 thoughts.
Reading Math as wolf for not drawing any conclusions is a Level 1 read, reading Math as wolf for doing something that is codified as wolfy. There’s no shame in doing that, Level 1 dosen’t neccecarily mean innacurate , but what makes it weird is this line of reasoning here:
So you still want to get towncred I dont see How this helps your case
Suddenly, the line of reasoning becomes slightly more advanced. It’s not that uncommon for Hjasik’s different reads to have different levels of depth but the read becoming more and more advanced directly proportional to the number of Math posts in thread feels like Hjasik is just pulling this read out of her ass.
On the other hand, I’m probably overthinking like 2 posts and hjasik is statistically probably going to be village, especially since they appear to be posting extremely actively and with an agenda, something very unusual for wolf!hjasik
Icibalus:
oh btw your reasoning is bullshit because writing long posts is what MathBlade does, that dosen’t neccecarily mean that he has to immediately draw conclusions from said long lines of reasoning, but rather that the reasoning is built upon in future posts
Icibalus:
sigh This is the game where the Math posts come from, a game where Hjasik read him incorrectly. It’s locked so I can’t do proper quotes from it, so here’s the link
Ewwww
Agreed.
I am wavering on my campaign loyalty and debating Blue for Day One Lynch
Hey Hjasik wanna be campaign co manager?
/vote Blue
Thanks for confirming me as town btw
Compare that to this game’s “fishing for towncred”:
Ha no. I am not scum. That was what the /sarcasm was for.
I feel like you’re pressuring me because you always do. Kinda like it’s expected of you. Now the question is if you’re doing it for reactions or if you are scum doing it for cover.
It is something. You declaring it as nothing is bullshit.
I have determined your introduction is fake. I need time and interactions to assess why. Why are you so determined to belittle everything I say so early?
Are you scared of my skills?
Notice in both cases Math heavily implies being very good at the game, being village, and his detractors being either wrong or a wolf. I personally think it’s just his personality being initially irritating that makes you really want to see something wrong with his posts when there isn’t really anything.
Icibalus:
There are differences, sure, but I wouldn’t say that this is neccecarily down to them being a different allignment.
Regardless; WE AREN’T LYNCHING MATH TODAY
@Firekitten I’ll get to your questions shortly.
Icibalus:
It is technically possible, but Math pretending that he knows exactly what wolf!Litten thinks feels very strange, since it dosen’t mesh with Math’s belief in logic and seems to skip out several important steps.
Mind you, in doing this I’m trying to guess exactly what wolf!Math is thinking so maybe all it indicates is that the read is wrong.
Icibalus:
I’m more accurately trying to say that it feels like Math has decided that they’re both wolves and has come up with the only theory that lets them both be wolves, something that I’ve admittedly done in the past but only as a wolf or a really really really really suspicious alchemist (read: wolf who’s deluded that he might be a villager)
Icibalus:
Possessed said confirmable, baiting checks and class setup to be “confirmable” based on tips from you.
Reread Poss’s early posts, spot the actual genuine soft and then realise how wrong you are.
Geyde has posted some very solid stuff later on, and I’ve seen him be dragged into single reading patterns before (See: luigi’s mansion when he spent half of D1 pushing me and the other half cooperating with me).
I haven’t read your FK case and quite frankly I’m not going to bother doing so since we’re lynching htm today.
Marcus is also somebody who I get a lot of good vibes from, most notably his tonal purity in his later posts (VAST TONAL GAP) and genuinely interesting contributions later on.
Icibalus:
I agree that the gladiate was a bad move even though htm is wolf; it rumbles FK’s position as the Magistrate/Judge easily and stops potential VCA tommorow.
@MathBlade I had to out the soft to stop Poss from outing fully. At least there’s a possibility the wolves will be idiots and not realise what he obviously is now.
Icibalus:
Bearing in mind that I think this kind of speculation is unhealthy, I think that if he’s wolf, which he probably isn’t right now, I think he’s wolf with some kind of slanker. Don’t ask me why I think that, I just get the sense that if he’s a wolf he’s trying to compensate for something.
Icibalus:
sigh
Answer the question, math.
If litten is village (which he probably is), what does his flip indicate?
Icibalus:
Math, I also know FK, and I also know that you’re wrong here. We aren’t lynching Firekitten today. It’s very easy to read Litten as a wolf if you want him to be a wolf, which I think you want: to out somebody impressive for once.
BUT you’re wrong. You’re just completely wrong.
Icibalus:
Also, a lot of Math’s speciifc arguments feel like Math is suggesting plausible narratives but NOT providing actual evidence that proves that those narratives not only can exist but do exist. If Math can convince me of that I might vote Firekitten.
This is an even bigger might than Math MIGHT be wolf.
Icibalus:
So you have no actual evidence and you just EXPECT US to believe you?
If you “know” FK is a wolf, then you also “know” you can present evidence that proves that not only is the villagecred gladiate possible but probable.
Icibalus:
You seriously think FK is a logical player? He’s good and accurate, BUT he’s fucking terrible at providing arguments, and they’re always ridden with fallacies.
When I talk about evidence, I mean you need to make something that when analysed reveals absolutely that he was really trying to get villagecred, and the full narrative backed up fully.
Icibalus:
Look, I know what would convince me of Litten being wolf, and I haven’t found it. You just need to find something that dosen’t simply say that Litten very easily could be a wolf, which is what you’ve done repeatedly so far; pointing out his fallacies over and over again dosen’t prove that he’s wolf, nor does pointing out that what he’s done has been occasionally harmful for the village.
It’s obvious that Litten could be doing what he’s doing as a wolf; i’ve even had an urge to go out and try to prove he’s wolf out of nowhere. But I can also see a very plausible narrative where Litten is a villager, which should be fairly obvious. If you can prove that narrative is impossible, then once again, I might be convinced.
@Firekitten with respect, I don’t know how I do it either. It’s just how my mind works.
Icibalus:
Yes. He absolutely is and wants people to underestimate him as scum. How the hell do you think he avoids the lynch so much?
Litten makes fallacies all the time, and I don’t point them out because the conclusions are accurate. You’re trying to argue that just because his actions aren’t logical they’re irrational, which is untrue.
Icibalus:
or maybe, just maybe, and hear me out here, Litten is a villager and the one with blinders on his eyes is you?
Icibalus:
You have not done as I asked. At all. You’ve just taken another Litten post as an epic wolfslip without even considering the scenario where it comes from a villager, which may I remind you is not even implausible. Any villager who is being continually smashed by the same person over and over again would get annoyed if that person tried to pull the “red check” “reactiontest” with them as the target.
Icibalus:
I didn’t ask that at all. I asked you to explain why it is literally impossible that Firekitten is a villager, which you clearly haven’t done. All you’ve done, once again, is provide another way for Litten to be a wolf, when I want you to show that he can’t just be an incredibly impulsive and irritated villager who is sure in htm being a wolf.
Icibalus:
No. There’s an important distinction. Sure, it’s clear that Litten very easily could be a wolf, but again: He could very easily also be an incredibly frustrated villager, and you still haven’t shown that to be impossible, merely that Litten could be doing the same thing as he’s done previously.
Villagers deal in probabilities, wolves deal in possibilities. I’m not saying you’re a wolf (I understand exactly HOW you’re wrong here in a way that I wouldn’t get if you were a wolf, so this isn’t totally unproductive I guess) but you have to accept that you’re just explaining what would be happening if Litten was a wolf and you just really really really want him to be one.
Icibalus:
See, your narrative is as thus:
Litten spots a member of the other wolfteam (presumably cult in this scenario), htm, and gladiates them with his starting ability. He does this as a duplex way to gain villagecred; he gets his cover partially from the FPS, partially from the fact that there’s only one exact slot he can be, and partially from htm’s flipping wolf. MathBlade, our “hero” points this out, and FK flails to stop himself from losing everything his team has built up.
This is a solid narrative; it reeks of a wolf’s narrative. The problem is that there’s a far simpler narrative that also explains everything Litten’s done thus far:
Litten spots an obvious wolf and gladiates them impulsively, due to time constraints + ADHD. Math wolfreads him for it, and he gets irritated because he knows htm is obviously a wolf. Litten defends himself from Math by instinct due to being bad at expressing himself, which merely provides more fuel for Math’s fire,
Both scenarios are 100% possible, and Math has never proven that the latter is impossible.
Icibalus:
sigh @Solic You’re doing the exact same shit as MathBlade: Pointing out so many potential scenarios where Math is wolf without providing any proof. As an example:
Math uses the word “waste” because he internally sees himself as not every dying at all, as being a villager. He sees it as if there’s a gaurenteed angel on him, as if he’s a perfect villager. You know that Math is quite arrogant (not offensively so, I internally see myself as the only sane person in the entire world and I’m never described as an asshole) and you know that he’s good at getting his own way.
Prove that explanation and all other explanations for Math’s slip are impossible and I’ll talk.
Icibalus:
Yes, but it’s based on an objectively flawed premise from my perspective; that me and Blizer are wolves, and I know if you go down a rabbit hole of seeing every little movement I do towards Blizer and vice versa as possible evidence of us distancing from each other, you are gaurenteed to find it.
As for the reasoning being dropped, if you notice I asked Blizer a question, then Blizer replied to it. As mentioned, I forgot Blizer existed (sort of), his being in the game dropped to the back of my mind as I ruminated over stuff like Math’s push (I had to make sure that he really was full of shit before continuing my defense of Litten) and most of the other reads. However INTERNALLY the explanation satisfied me.
Mind you, there is a point in looking for some outside possibility; there’s definitely a sense in-thread of a lot of people saying “right I’ve done my D1 reads now I’ve done my D1 reads I don’t have to really do any other reads” unconciously, if that makes sense, and we can’t have complacency like that tear the village apart.
All of Ici’s posts on Mathblade. I think it’s clear his stance was very wavering, very let’s not discuss Math. Could totally see them being on a team. Their only tag team interaction was continuing to derail the thread on Litten to take up thread space.
