Shortnight 2: Return of the POGGERS - Day 5 [6/15] - Mafoa win, Everybody (including chloe) loses

[Firekitten]

I don’t remember that game

[Firekitten]

I haven’t played in a while so reading that game seems like a waste of time no offense

[Aelin]

I didn’t remember it too well, either. It was my first game, though.
I was reading through it to see if I could get any hints to your alignment.

[Firekitten]

that’s not going to be very helpful

[Aelin]

I’m used to wasting my time.
But, I do have to ask… why the hell would I have that quote if not because I was reading through that game? Why would I be reading through that game if not to have some idea of your meta? And why would I try to figure out your meta if I was a wolf and had TMI?

[Firekitten]

wait

you are saying you were reading through that game right

[Firekitten]

were you reading the whole thread or just my posts

[Aelin]

Just your posts, mainly. Why?

[Firekitten]

so just my posts?

[Aelin]

Addendum: Sometimes I clicked on the “xx posts” part if I was interested in something like a reply, which is how I saw the random.org thing

[Firekitten]

ok that makes more sense

[Firekitten]

going to eat brb

[Firekitten]

okay this was a lie

[Firekitten]

I said slight exaggeration after it so it doesn’t count

[Firekitten]

and it’s pretty clear from context of other posts I said I’m not going to play mafia for a while regardless of the outcome of this game

[Aelin]

You never answered my question bully

[Chloe]

FK ISO

@Firekitten

This type of post is the exact reason I caught onto a wolf when subbing in and barely having read the thread a week ago or however long, they post something that doesn’t make sense if you think about it long enough that you can clearly see they just made it up

Re:cattypaw

@Firekitten

I think another thought that I want to share with regards to Chloe is that i think her earlier posts with regarding to be convinced marluxion and arete is wolf is signs of a level two wolf thinking that their agression is townie because it shows convictions in their reads

despite the fact that I don’t think Chloe should of had that confident

@Firekitten

Chloe’s like poisonedsquid in…whatever game it was. I called them out as open wolfing despite the fact that they weren’t technically because it was painfully clear that squid was a wolf.

it makes no difference

@Firekitten

somehow while thinking about arete and reading their posts I had this background thought that somehow made the connection of “Chloe flipping their read is eerily similar to how I changed gears when getting scumread in a mash in order to look townie”

I wasn’t even reading Chloe’s posts what the fuck brain

Lots of comparing to previous games he’s played, and using mafia theory to support his reads
(Not inherently AI, but at some points it feels like he goes hard on the theory/anecdotal evidence)

@Firekitten

this is a stupid read, but for whatever reason my mind is saying “look, it’s spoilered, that means Arete obviously was somewhat anxious to have Chloe read this because the game just started” and the fact that they have two summaries afterwards just makes my mind go “if this were distancing arete would have just posted this regularly”

this is rlly a fk take

villagery

@Firekitten

I think this type of post comes from a wolf more often than a villager. From my experience villagers and wolves both hedge on their reads however the way they do it and the context of it is usually how you tell the difference. However, this type of take seems like a weird thing for a villager to hedge on because the take isn’t like a read, it doesn’t affect the game, so it really doesn’t make sense to hedge on it unless you were somehow worried that this opinion would reflect on your alignment this game in a bad way…which is very more likely a thought a wolf has.

@Firekitten

this may be more reflective of misty’s personality but I feel like usually wolves when they see other people have takes feel compelled to produce some of their own while a villager would…do things like this

feels like a town mindset

@Firekitten

hey Chloe

I’m willing to be yeeted tomorrow if you flip villager

:’)

@Firekitten

if you are villager I will only take cold showers for a week

@Firekitten

I betted a week of cold showers? What did you bet? The person with the biggest bet takes most of the blame :’)

@Firekitten

if anyone is V and I have my vote on them at EOD I will take a cold shower for a day

this can stack

@Firekitten

they might be wrong

In which case I will take a lot of cold showers

but I’m going to keep pushing them until I think they are wrong

@Firekitten

For that alone I’m changing my bet to if you are a villager I’m taking cold showers for a month

fuck it

@Firekitten

how much more can I bet until it gets ridiculous

@Chloe name sometning

If you are town I will do that thing maybe I have to agree to it first

@Firekitten

Marshal vote is a compromise but if we can get the votes I’ll be willing to vote chloe under the premise of my death if I’m wrong

like, I’m literally betting a month of cold showers dying doesn’t faze me

i hate bets like these
and all the shower and OOG bets suck too. why cant we just play the game we’re in and not add a separate irl layer to it
this isnt ai i just thought i’d mention that it annoys me

@Firekitten

/Vote Night

Chloe is probably scum however I think starting a counter-wagon here will lead to interesting insights, which would probably not happen today if we just keep everything the way it is right now.

@Firekitten

I think you are tunneling too hard, I was tempted to burry Chloe with a wall post even though I’m on mobile last night but I didn’t because I realized that it hasn’t even been 24 hours yet, and that Chloe is probably dead regardless of what happens today. It’s best to try to solve other people besides Chloe right now, and the best way to do that is to apply pressure to people…notice how Chloe reacted after having pressured added to them.

@Firekitten

Marl, you literally have 24 hours to kill Chloe, be patient

@Firekitten

Chloe how do I make the game more enjoyable for you

starting a CW when the sole focus of the thread is on me is a good look
wolves want us to implode and focus on making teams around me being a wolf, etc
he actively tried to get marl out of the tunnel and seemingly make the game more enjoyable for me
wouldnt a wolf want marl to just go ham on the tunnel so i dont have any wim and dont provide anything of value

@Firekitten

in the wall post I deleted I was going to prove a point by asking arete to link games Chloe played when they were pushed as mafia, my wall post was going to be centered around this article

idk why but this post like
irked me
like
really annoyed me
it felt like he posted a big portion of an article to be like ‘look dad! look what i did! i was gunna dunk on her too, dad!’
dont know if its ai but wowee

@Firekitten

This post seems overly performative but I’m pretty sure this is Trochi indicative more than it is alignment indicative

@Firekitten

…is trochi overly performative as scum?

i thought this could be w/w
oops

@Firekitten

image1280×720 142 KB

aaaaaaaaa
a
a
a
a
i forgot about the meme
fuckin
meme

i also didnt realize he was doing an RT at the beginning of the day, and genuinely thought he was pushing agenda on me/Arete using Marl’s death

@Firekitten

@arete what are your thoughts on this

Keep in mind that I started to mentally track certain Marluxion posts after he said “I had a gamer plan” in order to see what said plan was, and I came to the conclusion that his plan was to dunk yoy, so, what are your thoughts on it arete :’)

Do you think he wanted to dunk on you? Do you think he had another plan, or do you think it was just an off topic comment that had nothing to do with the game, all thoughts are appreciated

this post feels like he knew marl would die
but thats so stupid
like
it cant be that easy, right

@Firekitten

No one else talk about what I’m talking about, I only want a conversation with arete

@Firekitten

Chloe shut up right now I’m trying to talk to arete

@Firekitten

what part of “if you aren’t arete ignore me right now” do you not understand

okay this sounds like me when i was talking to sulit lmao

@Firekitten

If anyone actually knows me they would know that I started to get better playing forum mafia under the guidance of Eevee which drastically altered the way I play the game. I like to do certain things in order to gather reactions because at the end of the day chaos is good for village . Arete knew what I was doing there at the start of the day, however, despite knowing that, it doesn’t mean that the reaction test is useless, in fact this whole thread is a prime example of how a reaction test could extend past just getting reactions from a singular person, despite the fact that it was my original intent to get a better read on arete

i hate this post because he sounds like hes trying to teach the class a lesson
idk if its ai but it definitely feels condescending lol

@Firekitten

dude no offense but this forum is really not that hard to read

this aged well

@Firekitten

Chloe has to take time to develop their posts while I spew out my thoughts with zero filter because I don’t need to take the time to stop and think about how to fake my narrative or agenda when my thoughts are pure lol

i thought this post was scummy as fuck ngl
but i could see myself saying it

@Firekitten

on the off chance that Chloe, Night, Me all get yeeted and marshal is still alive please kill marshal for not caring about the game state right now

feels v
wolf would probably just chain marshal with me and not… him/me/night

@Firekitten

literally I believe no one is reading my posts I believe that the more I push on Chloe the more people scumread me and the more I lift off the break the more they let off the scumread

what the fuck is this game

i can see this
and its also weird bc i dont know what to make of it

---

he’s pretty damn invested in the game, and considering we keep wagoning and yeeting villagers i wanna say this is a good look at a glance
his confidence in me being a wolf feels real, as much as i hate to admit it

---

@Firekitten

this is where our arguments are basically focused around what we would do as a wolf that invalidates the other person’s what would they do

@Firekitten

this is a scheduled argument with Chloe plz be patient

@Firekitten

This argument is stupid can we agree

@Firekitten

What are you going to have for dinner

this is the first interaction i had with him that was like
‘ngl that was kinda townie. fuck’

@Firekitten

now that I think about it I don’t think mist gets invested in a game by having a wagon on them but I don’t know how to get them invested into the game

this is cute
he kinda did the same with me, too

---

help
is fk a villager
akwddakwd
aaaa

---

@Firekitten

nice agenda

@Firekitten

arete has gave a tinfoil and then started to accuse someone for not believing it

that’s agenda, not whatever the bullshit I was accused with at the beginning of today was

@Firekitten

sometimes you gotta ask yourself what’s the wolf motivation for posting something

it’s pretty clear what the wolf motivation is if you take this post with the context of their other posts.

Arete makes a read that he knows most people don’t agrrr with…then makes a pointed statement deliberately knowing that of course if he was a villager he wasn’t just going to change his thoughts right theres

the way he phrased his question is rlly just agenda

@Firekitten

Maybe I’m pushing you because you are pushing an agenda

aaaa
this is really bad
fk why did you have to post this shit
it was going so well

---

ranch convo feels like trying to distract thread from the arete v wind scenario but
that gets super preflippy

---

@Firekitten

part of me thinks this is an elaborate bus attempt because legitimately why would Sulit lie knowing it could be disproven as either alignment
but grace is so pure

villagery thought process, i’d like to think

@Firekitten

That’s dumb and you know it arete.

@Firekitten

If Chloe is a wolf of course people are going to be fine with this because it doesn’t matter

@Firekitten

no we are killing Chloe today

@Firekitten

like literally shut up arete

Chloe is literally a wolf but you keep trying to wiggle yourself out of that can of worms

aaaaaa
its so BAD
FK WHY DID YOU HAVE TO HAVE A GODAWFUL RESPONSE TO ARETE

@Firekitten

I’m telling you to shut up because I’m legitimately getting upset and I don’t know why

@Firekitten

I do know why but it’s dumb

@Firekitten

i get irrationally upset over things in forum mafia sometimes

this can be seen when I got easily upset in a third game I was playing when the first two games I was playing I mislynched a villager on accident

I shouldn’t be getting upset that you are making a case that Chloe/Marshal are both villagers, but I am because I know it in my soul that I’m right and I literally thought they were going to be yeeted today but now you are flipping your Chloe read despite the fact that you agreed that they should die

again I’ll like to reiterate that I’m probably not upset at you specifically here it’s probably just the build up of how the game has gone so far (I don’t know what I’m feeling right now but I’m feeling something)

this may not make sense but then again I’m not sure how to make it make sense

oh no AtE
fuck
it feels real too

@Firekitten

This is blatantly gaslighting the thread, I called you out on pushing an agenda against wind. Now you are trying to push this back on me and state that my call out posts is an agenda, no, that’s not going to happen. For your second point, getting upset that people are clearing Chloe when they are obviously a wolf isn’t doesn’t really depend on whether or not you are a wolf, I can still be upset even if you are a wolf trying to save Chloe there. Also thirdly, this is literally how I talk to people in games, you can look through my previous games and see that this is literally how I talk to people regardless of my read oh them.

@Firekitten

Arete wall post is literally NAI, nothing in it reveals something as town. People are reading them as town because “it has words and people who put effort are townie” which is blatantly not true. Look at how Arete pushed the theory at the start, then used his theory to ask a pointed question to Wind in order to start pushing his agenda- it’s pretty clear from his posts that he’s not arguing in good faith

@Firekitten

This post was made right after Arete proposed the “Chloe and Marshal may both be town” post. Like, what the fuck even is this? Not only are you phrasing it in a way where you could easily misconstrue the response, you are also asking this question knowing the answer already. Which is prettt blantwntly just to find sometning to latch onto

@Firekitten

This deliberately ignores why I called you out for agenda pushing. I said you were pushing an agenda because your question was designed in order to get a scummy response. You did the same thing just now when asking about why I didn’t call you out for pushing Chloe. It’s deliberately trying to get a scummy response, not caring about the persons actual alignment.

oh we’re back to bad posts
ugh
but does w!FK kill arete when he could dunk on them
aaa
these are so gross

@Firekitten

Chloe said they absorbed stuff but made no comment on it which makes me wonder whether they actually use the absorption spell or not

the second part of this is a meme but the first part is an observation that probably means something but I can’t think enough

@Chloe

1am

its like 4h past my bedtime tbh

im struggling

@Firekitten

same

@Firekitten

wait to struggle

together

@Firekitten

want

this is another little interaction that felt vaguely villagery and i dont know why

@Firekitten

@osieorb18 then remember arete is a wolf

biasing osie’s perspective in his catch-up is gross

@Firekitten

Level 3: Elite player, played lots of games, has lots of experience
An elite player will have great tone and will be strong at fabricating reads. What to do in a situation like this when you have no meta? Well, one answer would be find enough villagers and just keep this player in your PoE. But we’re here to look for wolves! And the highest chance for strong wolves to make mistakes is:

1. During the opening pages.
2. During EoDs when a wolf has to push the mafia agenda and risk his position (More on these first two points in MORE ADVANCED CONCEPTS).
3. By constantly making incorrect reads. The moment you gain the ability of finding villagers it will be easier for you to assess an elite player. If he insists on ignoring signs of towniness of players he’s pushing, it should set off alarm bells.

This article also would yeet Chloe off the face of the earth if it had a vote

he called me a lvl-3 wolf and idk how to feel about it
also more mafia theory aaaaaaaaaaa

@Firekitten

1.for context, arete has just made their wall post about Chloe/marshal being v/v. When wind doubts this, Arete asked a pointed question that was phrased in a way designed to get a scummy “haha, gotcha” answer regardless of the actual answer “damned if you do, damned if you don’t”. When people start to question this as Agenda, Arete starts misinterpreting posts purposefully to discredit their accusers arguments and even decides to call those arguments Agenda Pushing because “they rely on knowing wind’s alignment” which is obviously not the case but Arete is purposefully ignoring that the reason I scumread his question was because it was a pointed question. Not only that, Arete knew the answer to this already, they were just trying to get a “haha gotcha” answer to this question

2.The ranch discussion revealed that Arete was purposefully targeting me out of everyone doing it. They said I was scummy for continuing the ranch discussion, however, when it was pointed out that centuries done the same thing they said I did the same thing more, however, he then proceeds to a couple post later vote centuries despite the fact that I supposedly done it more

3.Look at how Arete is treating my slot and winds slot differently, they think we are both wolves however it’s pretty blantant that they are trying to have their cake and eat it to by scumreading wind and trying to say out that their reads are bad

aaaaaa
a
a
i dont know if a wolf goes all in on this shit then doesn’t dunk on the villager
but these posts calling arete out for agenda just feel so bad-faith? maybe its hindsight bias

@Firekitten

/VOTE CHLOE

LETS FUCKING GO

@Firekitten

BLIZER THIS IS OUR CHANCE LETS GUN IT

@Firekitten

We need 4 more votes, I think at least, I think this is actually achievable

@Firekitten

voting Chloe is better use of your time

@Firekitten

i am so happy now

@Firekitten

I feel a thrill

my mouth has a feeling that I don’t know how to describe

This thrill is one of the reasons I like fm

@Firekitten

it activates all the good feeling centers in the brain

@Firekitten

No vote chloe

HE HO HE HO CHLOE HAS GOT TO GO

@Firekitten

THE WAGONS ARE TIED

BUT WE CAN MAKE THEM GO UP EVEN MORE

VOTE CHLOE

HE HO HE HO CHLOE HAS GOT TO GO

@Firekitten

GAMER TIME

WE ARE DOING IT

YES

this feels like genuine excitement

@Firekitten

FUCK NO

@Firekitten

BAD GRACE BAD

NO COOKIES FOR YOU

and disappointment

@Firekitten

hot take:arete dying over blizer actually confirms Chloe as scum

why would you not kill the person who was saying yeet Chloe if they die

like, Arete dying there makes zero sense if town was that wrong

this kinda felt pre-planned

@Firekitten

I’ll like to also state that if I’m w and Chloe is v I never kill marluxion there, and if for some asinine reason you believe I would you would have to also believe that I would do the same thing with regards to blizer in order to make Chloe look bad

because killing arete ruins the tempo of a chloe push

@Firekitten

But that doesn’t matter, what matters is thread tempo and thread control. Killing blizer allows me to keep the tempo that I had going on, while also giving another reason to yeet you. I prepared a bunch of memes to dunk on you today, and it makes little sense for me to kill arete when I would want to use those memes

weh
this is fair i guess
different playstyles but i can see why he wouldn’t kill arete

@Firekitten

Why are we so bad

have we considered yeeting wolves

mood

@Firekitten

you say that but I’m not scum so woat

inb4 u are town

@Chloe

What

What is this post im confused

@Firekitten

goat

woat

@Firekitten

it’s me being self aware that I have been pushing u all game

@Chloe

Yeah but why did the thought even come up

Like

Thats a pretty random (ha) thing to say in that context? lmao

Idgi

@Firekitten

I don’t believe you believe this it’s pretty explanatory why I had that thought when you were mentioning team awards

@Chloe

Wha

I still dont get it

@Firekitten

how

@Firekitten

yes I’m calling it woat

and then I’m saying “watch Chloe be town”

@Chloe

Yeah but how does me being town have to do with rng being woat

@Firekitten

why are you playing dumb

@Chloe

Im legit fucking confused

Do you know me

@Firekitten

RNG having one wrong read and calling it woat was purposefully exaggerating the woat part, and that caused me to reflect on what I have been doing this game and it would be rlly awkward if I been tunneling you all game and u were town

@Chloe

O
kay

Ok im
Uh

I think I understand

Weh
Confusion
Brain hurt

@Firekitten

my brain has started hurting too I’m just going to leave the thread

this was another townie interaction and i still dont know why

---

im getting tired and my browser is starting to respond very slowly lmao
every time i paste a new quote it slows down even more
this is pain

---

@Firekitten

Chloe are you town reading Sulit because you like them

@Chloe

shut

@Firekitten

that interaction was townie yoy can’t be a villager that would mean I need to take a cold shower for a month

@Firekitten

plz change ur card color to red using ur mod powers

another one

@Firekitten

this

is how I feel

exactly

@Firekitten

you don’t have to village read me if you don’t read my posts

another one

---

ok i cant quote any more posts bc this is getting too slow
but there are many many more times where i had interactions with fk that were like ‘…is this just town. this cant be town. that isnt okay’
multiple times where we mindmelded but on opposite ends
his SoD4 post hit home
his emotions that hes shared in thread feel genuine, and at most points i felt the same way
he and i somehow have had the same exact mindset on eachother, and i dont think thats easily fakeable
he noticed the wagons picking up steam on me today and backed off, when w!fk would just fucking dunk on me and not allow the village to get anything done
etc

tldr:
it hurts my soul, but FK is probably just town

[Firekitten]

@Chloe

this post feels like he knew marl would die
but thats so stupid
like
it cant be that easy, right

Do you want me to show you me making 3 memes while alive in a game of what I thought was going to happen in that game before the game finished

[Chloe]

yes

[Firekitten]

I misspoke, these were the two memes I made the game I subbed in wanting to post it post game

but none of them happened I was correct on all my villager reads and I was catching onto the scum

so I had to make another meme post game