once again
I was looking at it from a theoretical standpoint
not saying that it was definitively what was happening
holy shit
the fact that you apparently did not find a single post in my entire D1 that you could construe as wolfy and that didn’t affect your read on me is agenda-y! like if I were trying to case someone and literally all of their posts were fine that would … make me consider the possibility that I was wrong…
And me admitting you didn’t have any obvious scummy posts D1 is literally the opposite of agenda
ironically your posts are agenda pushing rn
funny how when I’m pushing Chloe you’re like ‘fine, not agenda’ and when I’m pushing Wind you’re like ‘omg agenda’ even though neither of them has flipped yet
I have been pushing for Chloe all day, and you think that’s a good response right there? You are blantwntly trying to make me looo bad. Of course I am not calling you out for an agenda for pushing Chloe because I think Chloe is scum. You know this.
I’m implying that Litten and Wind are W/W and that Litten specifically decided to target my slot once I stopped tunnelling Chloe
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Why would I ever call you out for agenda for pushing Chloe when I think Chloe is scum.
Arete is asking questions in bad faith on purpose lol and anyone who can’t see this shouldn’t be playing fm
the issue isn’t ‘you weren’t saying I was pushing agenda when I was pushing Chloe’ it’s ‘as soon as I looked outside of Chloe and started pushing Wind, you instantly accused me of pushing agenda, even though Wind literally hasn’t flipped yet’
long wallpost something something counterpoints
I don’t think I’ve played with Marshal before so I don’t really know how he personally would act as wolf or town when pushing people. I understand Marshal definitely wanted everyone to get off him as either alignment, and self-pres is NAI by itself. But I still view Mist’s slot as LHF and a very easy push to get wagoned at that point. Either way, Marshal spent a day and a half pushing Chloe without her ever getting yeeted yet, so I can see why he might not want to push her again, but I think as a villager with pure reads he would have tried again to push it into a wagon of him vs. Chloe and not him vs. Mist because he had a much more established SR on Chloe. If I’m misinterpreting something, though, someone please tell me.
To answer both Arete and Light on this one, I don’t really know. Any wolf can post at least a couple times with a towny post imo, and that doesn’t clear them. It gives food for thought but it doesn’t mean they’re a villager. When looking at the motivation behind the most prominent posts Marshal made, what I mostly saw was “Chloe has to go”. It continued for a while and suddenly went “Mist should go.” This is why I think it’s indicative of agenda rather than town pushing slots they think are wolfy. A good wolf will give any reason they can logically come up with to push, and town has faulty logic so usually the wolves can find a weakness to push on. If I’m being too narrowminded here and Marshal was, in fact, doing something other than just pushing slots, give me some examples.
Idk about this point. I don’t see it as villagery with a confbias because he just changed his reads, so he’s no longer cleared all but 3. I could see him easily pulling this as a wolf because lolpocketing. Considering he’s been in the PoE pretty much all day, it’s a good way of squirming his way out and pocketing a couple townies along the way. If he were town I think he’d be more focused on convincing people his readlist was correct if he flips town, instead of shifting the blame onto someone else like he did with Mist to get unwagoned.
----I’m not gonna quote all the Chloe posts so here’s a separation line----
Chloe is a weird slot for me. No, I didn’t ISO her because lol too many posts. But I read the thread in chunks and focused on interactions and reactions, and I found that while a lot of things Chloe said and did could easily be wolf material, there was more effort during D2 that she put into solving instead of just trying to worm her way out of the PoE. During D1 I saw her accept that she would most likely die early as a way to avoid leaving her in LyLo, but EVO’s modkill kind of changed that so weh. From reading Chloe’s posts it looks like she’s doing things, however. She does not look like she believes 100% in her own reads as she expresses uncertainty at multiple points,especially after Arete’s post (hence why I said it looked to me like clearing the wolf and pocketing the villager, in the specific case Marshal is wolf with Arete and Chloe is town). Chloe also expresses a lot of uncertainty about Sulit’s slot because her test on Sulit kind of outed Sulit as wolf but it made Chloe feel bad because it was AtE. Arete’s case actually made Chloe rethink her position on Marshal as well, which was obviously the goal of the post, but in doing so it tears down the current foundation of Chloe’s readlist if she is a villager, which also makes her more likely to have unstable reads for the rest of the game as long as she listens to Arete imo.
Arete is right, nobody else said it was a bad idea, but the only people who were pushing it were Leafia and me as I recall. I said leaving either slot to LyLo was bad, and that I was worried people would forget about it by D3, and Leafia expressed the same. I’m not actually sure how keen everyone else was on this idea tbh; all I know is that several people said one slot wouldn’t clear the other and that’s all. But by Arete saying they might both be v, it’s essentially the same thing and saying one flip doesn’t determine what the other is. I wasn’t trying to chain the flips just to determine who’s a wolf; I was suggesting it for the health of the game because these two slots have been hotly debated all day and will continue to be unless they are gone, which I think is an enormous distraction for town because most of us aren’t focusing on anyone else, or building teams around at least one of these two.
So in a way, yes, Arete is right. But I think it’s more likely from my Pov that they went a step further to get people away from a wolf in the thunderdome by finding a way to rationalize not yeeting either slot, without clearing either one for sure. Like it’s a rational move as town but it’s a very smart move as a wolf.
I do not read that “wolves are fine with the thunderdome” specifically because Arete is not fine with the thunderdome. Wolves are fine with splitting their opinions on it. One wolf is probably just jumping on the opposite wagon and that’s why there wasn’t much opposition, imo, and the other one is steering everyone away from both wagons instead. The third wolf is literally a wagon. And I say this all because I think the people I individually scumread the most right now fit those team slots, even though I didn’t really try to read them together as a team until later in the day. I was just pulling things up in a case against each one individually but the wagons fit with those slots and that’s why I look like I’m confbiased into that team.
There’s absolutely a chance I’m wrong, anyway and there’s a greater chance I’m wrong than I’m right about the wolf team, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to just dump my reads when someone makes a wallpost. I can consider other worlds where the scumteam is different, but dropping all my reads and discrediting myself is not something I personally think would be productive to do, because I’d rather push the slots in my PoE for info until I get something that can substantially change my mind.
I think Light answered this for himself. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe the scumteam didn’t kill Marl just because lolchloe. Maybe the scumteam just killed Marl because he was a super strong villager.
Ill give it that much but I don’t think NKA actually helps as much as people seem to think it does in this case. It’s easy to give red herrings if the villagers are totally absorbed in solving the night kills, and then we’re moving into dangerous territory.
I’m still not sure what to make of this. I need to give it more thought, though. I’m not going to discount what Arete said except that the wolves wouldn’t push away from the thunderdome if one wolf is in the thunderdome, one wolf is kind of inactive, and the last wolf is actually just Arete.
That’s the job I signed up for.
Youve already seen how I’ve been reacting to all of Aretes posts. Maybe you’ve read my case on them earlier and I’m not going to quote it again because I’m on mobile and also don’t think it’s very productive to just keep quoting myself over and over again. I can’t really discredit Aretes reads directly because they haven’t given solid reads as far as I’m concerned. I am discrediting their v/v theory not because it’s impossible but because I think the crux of the post comes from wolf agenda to get everyone off their buddy and pocket the other one in the thunderdome. I can’t discredit Aretes reads on FK, Centuries or me because there’s not enough there for me to work against, although I really did find Aretes jumpy votes on FK and Centuries during the ranch dip discussion to be weird whereas I think a villager would’ve just told them to shut up (like Chloe trying to get Centuries, Marshal and me to stop interfering with the Sulit test). Maybe that’s a personal difference, though. Is Arete usually that fast to vote people for interruptions?
Anyway, I do want to discredit Aretes read on me although some of their points are actually valid. Obviously because I know my own card, I will push back against Arete SRing me. I think they’re discrediting me with their posts by saying I’m finding petty reasons to SR them in response to their TMIing earlier in the day. I didn’t particularly feel like Arete was super wolfy until that point, and then their responses to me all day just went downhill as far as I’m concerned. There’s a lot of words that look like logic but they’re really just grasping for weak points where they actually exist, in order to push the agenda that I’m a wolf. I think I’m being set up for a misyeet later on in the game and not immediately because they will continue to discredit me until they’ve convinced a couple other people I’m a wolf, and the first one to sort of vibe with Arete on their read on me is Marshal, who slapped a TR on me earlier for some unspecified reason and recently jut rescinded it because they vibed with Arete (which imo looks even more like a scumteam than it did before).
This post is getting way too long and I can’t tell exactly how long cause lol mobile so I’m gonna cut it short here and go back to responding to the rest of Light’s points and probably some of Arete’s when I’m on a computer.
This deliberately ignores why I called you out for agenda pushing. I said you were pushing an agenda because your question was designed in order to get a scummy response. You did the same thing just now when asking about why I didn’t call you out for pushing Chloe. It’s deliberately trying to get a scummy response, not caring about the persons actual alignment.