Personally I also want Prince to be special
I know right that makes perfect sense as his imprison ability is pretty much a supportive, social and offensive type ability.
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And it’s kind of a investigative ability as well.
That’s why I said it’s kind of a investigative ability.
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Here’s a handy trick to check if a night action is social or not.
Investigative - The system is giving you feedback
Social - You are influencing someone else’s feedback
Note: Giving someone else the ability to do a social action on you is still social.
This means that gossip is social because it transfers feedback rather than creating it. And Drug is social because it gives someone else feedback. Yes that means that a sheriff that gave someone else his feedback would be social.
Sure.
Foresight (Night) - Target a player to see who visits them and who they visited at night. 4 uses.
Fake-claiming observer is too hard. But this makes it too easy!
Wolf Companion (Day) - Summon a wolf to attack someone. They will bleed and die tonight unless healed. Unusable until Day 3. 2 uses.
This would let Hunter wolf and bear at the same time. Overpowered!
Distract (Day) - Target player will be occupied tonight. Infinite Uses.
There are enough prevents in the game already. And I think a lot of people (including myself) want Distract to be replaced with Bewilder anyway.
Debauchery (Night) - Get in a player’s way, causing them to target you. You will heal yourself off any attacks redirected towards you, and you will be conversion immune. Infinite Uses.\
The healing thing doesn’t fit a class like Drunk.
Herbalist:
Change type from Offensive to Social.
Herbalist is not Social since it has no social abilities. I know several other people disagree though. In particular NuclearBurrito.
But it makes hunter a perfect claim for CL
Yes it does
Defile does not disrupt a player in anyway it only disrupts their communication which = social
Drug does not disrupt a player in anyway it only disrupts their communication which = social
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Even if you think that it shouldn’t be social it still shouldn’t be offensive imo it has no offensive abilities and social actually goes better with princess’s S/S result btw
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Sometimes, game balance trumps over thematic sense. This is one case.
This does not make sense as all of his abilities are social.
When it comes to observer, there is nowhere inbetween impossible and easy without changing his primary ability. Actually I would say in this case… in the hands of MM… it observer would still be a suicide claim if people are paying attention.
Why? because really the 2 most important days to check on an observers will, are n1-2. That’s when there’s the most visits… almost anyone you checked should have like an 80% chance of having both visited and been visited by someone. Also N1-2 is where no non idiotic BD should ever accept a “peak” (who in the right mind would peak when… unseen or cult can’t have their first convert yet, MM is still detection immune, you can’t have had any leads to even try and do a good target… and most scorneds/fools are more likely to be using their frame ability than on any other day, Peak day 1 is effectively a 5% chance of catching an evil, 5% chance of falling for a frame, and a 90% chance of finding a BD… one which you would have no way to know if he was converted that very same night).
In short, if a MM wanted to do an observer act… he probably would need to actively chose not to convert until night 3 or later… As anything else would massively highlight the absense.
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N1, follow x, prevented? Doesn’t seem THAT hard. Observer definitely needs to be toned down in powerlevel. I think this is not the way to do it, but it is not too bad of a fix.
I always claim Obs as MM and it works 95%+ of the time as long as you pay notice to every little detail in the match and are well-versed in the game’s mechanics. You can base your follows off your teammates’ visits, the logs of dead players, and any little detail that comes up during the day, such as a Drunk claiming they were successful in redirecting a person the last night. Adjust your logs based on attempts at occupying you, add a prevented/occupied if you’re not feeling entirely safe with a night, and make sure you Peek only at late game. Peeks are the easiest as you’ll know all the players who are Unseen, and barring the Prince every BD-aligned player can be converted while every neutral cannot, so your Foresight will let you automatically know a player’s faction as long as they aren’t the Prince.
Assume the following game:
You are the Mastermind[6], and you know who is the Assassin[3] and you just converted a Duchess[13] the first night.
The Assassin[3] killed a Physician[9], who healed the Duchess[13] the previous night.
In the coming night the Duchess informs you that she visited Killer/Off[14] during the first night, so via that information and 9’s logs you put n1: Follow 13 - [9]>[13]>[14].
D3 comes the Assassin[3] dies to the NK and a Noble[4] is upped for claim as the court has reason to believe that he is the Possessor. The Butler[11] confirms him as not occupy immune as he visited the accused last night, thus he’s pardoned. You know that 11 visited 4 due to mutual confirmation from both and that since 4 was occupied then he did not visit anyone. So you put n2: Follow 4 - [11]>[4]>[None].
For N3 you want to convert the Butler to make up for the dead assassin, but he partied and occupied you, so since you know that he used a party you can easily put n3: Follow 11 - Occupied. You also noticed that the Sheriff[5]'s log has him visiting the Noble[4] n2, so you also add that to your second night.
Killer/Off[14] claims Hunter D4 and in N4 you attempt to use Foresight on him, and he cannot be converted. The Prince[8] died N3, so Killer/Off must be a neutral, likely the NK. So come D5 and you accuse him claiming N4: Peek 14 - Neutral.
By the end of this day, your log will look like:
Mastermind the Observer
N1: Follow 13 - [9]>[13]>[14]
N2: Follow 4 - [11,5]>[4]>[none]
N3: Follow 11 - Occupied/Prevented
N4: Peek 14 - Neutral
This makes the log look extremely convincing, especially as you’ve also found the NK, to the point that BD will likely not look too deep into it and will automatically assume that you’re either a legit Observer or at least a Nightwatch.
A game won’t look 100% like this, but as long as you pay attention to every single detail that’s going on it’ll be extremely easy to pull this off. The sheer amount of information that comes from Follow is a double-edged sword for BD as not only makes it difficult to fake unless you have an eye for detail, but if you’re good at faking it then BD will always assume them to be legitimate and not take any second glances at it. Hell, I’ve even pulled this shit when I was a Reaper and it worked far better than I thought.
As a side note, know who visits and who does not, as the Mystic, the Prince, the Hunter, the Inquisitor, and the Sorcerer at times do not count as visits. A player that was the first target of Puppet Strings will in addition visit the Puppet Strings’ second target along with their original visit. You can use this as a way to frame people and gives an excuse to cause mislynches as a Possessor, but I don’t recommend it as most of BD are absolutely ignorant of Poss mechanics and will end up executing you for all the wrong reasons.
I mean even if you do pay attention to details, it is still going to be almost impossible.
It probably works because BD is dumb but there is almost no way any class other than NW can fake it perfectly.
But you can sorta claim it as MM if:
BD are dumb
You pay attention to every little detail
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Burrito has made a convincing case for why Mastermind shouldn’t have this foresight and I definitely see where he is coming from.
Actually Vandalay has changed my mind. I think making Foresight the same as Observer Follow would be fine.
This change has already been implemented into Forum of Lies , so I guess i should add that if you use wolf , u cant use bear that night and vice versa.
Okay I would support that.
Sometimes, game balance trumps over thematic sense. This is one case.
If the point is to make Debauch useless against Reaper, why not just let Reap bypass the Drunk’s immunity? Adding a self-heal just makes it an unnecessarily complicated change.
This does not make sense as all of his abilities are social.
Per the wiki’s definition of social, which I agree with, none of his abilities are social since an ability is social only if it affects the chatbox.
Which means the only abilities in the game that are social are Trollbox, Telepathy, Link Minds, Conduit, Distract, and Icy Touch. And to a certain extent, Imprison since it hides Prince’s identity in the chat, although the prevention effect (offensive) is more significant.
The point is to make it ambiguous, the same amount of uncertainty as the current Sheriff’s scout.
And what is the wiki definition of social?
(Im a lazy bum)
Thing is, the odds of an unannounced visit messing up the logs is minimal.
Out of the 16 players, 1 is the King, 1 is the Prince, 1 is the NK, and 3 are Unseen ergo you will know who they visit. So by default at n1, at least 2 players do not have abilities that count as visits, 1 will kill anyone who they visit ergo you will know if they visited a person or not, and for three players you will know precisely who they visited. Usually one or two BD die the first night in Unseen games, so you will know who the dead people visit as they will have it in their logs.
Also remember that players that are occupied, jailed, prevented, or spying Nobles, Hunters, Mystics, Inquisitors, Princes, and Fools do not visit, so mathematically the number of players who will have unannounced visits is not that high, as to qualify for an unannounced visit then it would have to come from a visiting BD-aligned class that was not role-blocked, lived to the following day, and did not speak out and made their logs public the following day.
Claiming Obs is not a flawless strategy, but perfect fake claims such as Knights, Sheriffs, and Court Wizards will always bring suspicion onto you.
Here it is
Social classes can use the chat system and social abilities to forge allies or disrupt communication between players.
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And here is offensive too for those wondering
Offensive classes can disrupt their foes directly with their abilities.