Sorcerer is far too difficult, and here is why

#1

Unseen and cult probably win about 50% time, slightly less. Now, this odd is increased with sorcerer present, but only a little because sorcerer often kills the bad guys too.

Not only does sorcerer have to have cult/unseen win, it needs to survive to see it - something most cult and unseen don’t do.

They can die all the normal ways an NK dies - king, obs, knight, etc. But they also have an inquisitor following them, for some reason.

I don’t want another inquisitor nerf, I just want everything else that can find normal NK to not find the sorcerer, because the sorcerer also has this extra person who’s only job is too see the sorcerer die

#2

Imo the main problem of Inquisitor/Sorcerer isn’t that they are poorly balanced ( which they are ), but that they produce no fun gameplay, while many neutral classes do. When I say no fun gameplay, I primarily mean the classes themselves don’t have many “choices” to make, and their presence in game doesn’t produce choice based gameplay for other players either.

As an Inquisitor, you only out yourself once asked, and then most people would believe you unless they were possessed/reaped, which is pretty easy to figure out. It’s simply a good claim to make, especially in unseen games. You sit back and play as BD until sorc is executed, which is from my experience relatively fast.

As a Sorcerer … your claim is … with every king being able to see the faction, I’m going to say - good luck with claiming. You can try claiming Inquisitor yourself and die to the real Inquisitor the following night? You can’t jump once your cover has been blown or silence people in court. You are simply a really weak NK who is killing people hoping for the best. You can try claiming Alchemist of course, but that’s not very compelling, any neutral can do that and maybe live another day. Having NK’s main go-to claim be the Alchemist is what created the whole “Neuts Out” meme anyway.

Another problem is that Inquisitor remains a kingmaker after he wins. Scorned already has this side effect where he is left as a player in game with no goal after they have won.

My suggestions? Give the sorcerer the ability to affect the court somehow. Improve their subversion ability. Let them hide, switch positions with a player somehow, maybe with the inquisitor for one day - anything, allow them to mix up things. framing people as magic users is not good enough. Maybe they can make players appear as neutral/immune for the night? It could somewhat demotivate rapid neutral lynching. Or make it so Inquisitor can be converted after he loses his shield. Just throwing feelers out here.

3 Likes
#3

This is what I would think would be best:

-Make sorcerer appear blue dragon to good and neutral king, and evil to evil king
-Make sorcerer appear blue dragon to observer, and neutral to night watch and seeker (easier to team up)
-Make magic missile not a visit

They will have more claim space, and their main threat will now be the inquisitor

#4

sorc like all nk should aim for 10 per cent victory chance. nothing wrong here

#5

Well i played this game for 469 Hours… only once iv seen sorc to survive. i dont think its 10%

#6

I am sure it is currently less than 10%

1 Like
#7

I would not of thought so

#8

Guys, you should compare Sorcerer more to Reaper or Possessor, than to Inquisitor. How often do you see Reaper or Possessor winning? Yeah… Neutral killers are supposed to have low win ratio and rarely win games.

#9

I agree, sorcerer’s main threat should be the inquisitor, not the court. Here are some of my suggestions:

  • Make the sorcerer’s magic missile not a visit. Poss and reaper have ways to stay hidden from the court, I don’t see why sorcerer can’t since she already has a direct counter, even if she has an easier win condition.

  • Give the inquisitor a day ability.
    “Trail of magic”:
    Check a dead player, tells you if magic was used on that player the night they died (He will get a message saying “Magic was used on this player the night they died” if they were killed by a magic missile, if a court wizard used tornado on them that night, or if they were affected by any other magic related abilities). It will then give you the number of any players who used magic on them and 2 or 3 extra random numbers, with a message saying: "The trail leads to one of these players: (list of player numbers) ". 3 uses.

  • Make the inquisitor lose all his abilities after he wins.

My reasoning behind this is that Sorcerer will be hard to find for BD, but the inquisitor can find her easier than before by following the trails of the magic missiles.

#10

None of the NKs are at 10%. I’d say close to 4 or 5 is realistic if that.

#11

Honestly NK’s should be at 20%. That may sound like a lot until you realize that they are basically a faction and should have a meaningful shot at beating the other 2.

Something that annoys me is the power the the cult leader and assassin have compared to the NK’s. Now while I agree that the Unseen and Cult as a whole should be stronger than the NK’s, any individual member should not be.

What I mean is that NK’s should have more kill power (one of the most important factors for an evil class) compared to the assassin. The cult leader can be stronger however because it is the only class that the cult can use to make progress (aka: killing BD) whereas the unseen has the MM AND the Assassin.

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#12

How about this:

Completely swap their goals around. Make it so that Inquisitor is the one that needs BD to win AND live long enough to see the sorcerer die. While Sorcerer’s only goal is to kill the Inquisitor with her own hands. If she does that, she wins the game, and can do as she pleases. If Inquisitor dies some other way, by execution or the evil faction kill him, sorcerer goes insane, gaining mass killing abilities - becoming a true neutral killer whose goal is to kill everyone else.

Just brainstorming here, but I’m pretty confident it would be more fun than what we got. I mean it would definitely change the way factions treat neutral players, as it would bring more variables into play. BD could make a deal with sorcerer to let her kill inqui and then she could play for them - for example. Which is why Inqui would be the one having to hide perhaps. A lot of options are on the table at that point.

#13

no, the whole point is inquisitor hunts sorcerer, who kills BD

#14

The point is to have classes with fun and engaging gameplay. I suggested changing the whole point of inquisitor hunting sorcerer who kills BD in pursuit of that goal.

#15

I agree, inquisitor is there to get sorcerer, it would give sorcerers too many possible threats at the beginning if everyone could know who he is. Inquisitor is there and he is specialized for getting sorcerer, maybe have CW know it somehow?, but all BD’s would make sorcerer a bit too hard to play

#16

Technically, the sorcerer only needs bd to lose, not unseen/cult to win