[Standard] WoW:BfA v1.1 - Alliance Victory (2/16)

[Napoleon]

Also my alice wallpost is ready:

Here it is:

Alice is WOLF WOLF WOLF!

@Alice

…I’m not really accepting this as a derp clear.

@Alice

…I still have no f’ing idea what Napoleon is doing.

@Alice

I don’t see his paranoia as genuine.

Especially the “paranoia is genuine” one. She’s indirectly shading me because I said “Stop pocketing me” to CRich after he slight TL me. Instead of waiting for more of CRich’s reaction, she steps in here.

@Alice

@Napoleon

CRichard - i mean the tonal reads are correct, crich does have a decent tone and i think what they’ve said so far more likely comes from a V!CRich. A W!CRich feels… less jumpy towards analysis and they are more jumpy towards analysis (I don’t think a W!CRich would have lingered on how I was “paranoid about being pocketed”)

@Napoleon

Alice - You’ve literally told me that you typically like to pocket players like CRich/Leafia and I think your read on CRich was a bit premature. I also don’t like the approach you’ve taken to shading me.

…you’re TR’ing them for the same reason I was doing. How is that a pocket?

Alone, I don’t think this could be inherently scummy, but either way it’s a misrepresentation of what happened.

What happened is:

Alice liked CRichard’s tone based off everything up to this post:

@CRichard564

Getting slight town pings from Alice and Napoleon this game.
Frankie’s entrance is a little interesting, though I’ve never seen how he plays before.

Now, everything I used to read about CRichard happened before this post.

@CRichard564

Is Napoleon’s reason for voting me poor? Yes, though I don’t think its AI from him this early in the game.

There’s a difference, because CRichard actually posts more game-related content

---

By the way, Alice only starts to change her stance on me a little bit after this post.

@Centuries

Is there any actual argument behind the vote apart from me defending Napoleon

I think it’s noteworthy though, that a wolf convincing another wolf to switch targets seems less likely. I don’t think this is a W/W interaction. Alice changed course after Centuries convinced her to, I feel like W/W, Alice would be more adamant to show a level of distancing.

But interactions aside, I don’t like how Alice only reconsiders after Centuries comes out to defend me.

@Alice

Nap’s reaction to being wagoned wasn’t that bad.

@Alice

Napoleon feels kind of isolated, tbfh.

This comes afterwards.

---

@Alice

I liked his reaction to Napoleon’s push on him.

The level of it felt like he analyzed it in a pretty critical manner. Probs >rand V.

This is Alice admitting that my RT actually did something. BTW, her accusation is that I did an RT and did nothing with it, which is false.

---

@Alice

The logic you’re seeing here is that you TR’d Napoleon earlier on because of his carefree opening and you’re seeing the push on him being done on bad faith because of it. I don’t seen anything objectionable with this.

@Alice

V

Alice
CRichard
Apprentice
Ami

Leafia
Italy
Chloe
Frankie

Blizer
SDA
Ob
10
Chuck

Napoleon
Centuries

Modeshifter

W

This readlist feels a bit inconsistent. She began by saying that “Ami and CRich” are good and they ended up on the top of the readslist. This is why I suspect that it might be pocketing. Also, she hasn’t really done anything with the Centuries and Napoleon interaction and I think based on her posts the Nap/Centuries ranking is way too harsh to the point of inconsistency.

---

For those of you are not familiar, Alice pockets a few people (in Community she did Leafia/App, in RM4, she tried pocketing Arete & Seth (Seth wasn’t a hard pocket tbh tho, it was more justifiable)), and shades people to turn them into LHF. Here’s what she did in RM4.

Pocket

@Alice

Have you seen wolf Arete?

@Alice

Can you give more specifics why Arete’s tone is off?

@Alice

Arete’s wolf game is far more agenda-y and less logical. Not seeing this here.

@Alice

We basically have the same reads rn.

@Alice

@Napoleon

AIice sounds so agenda-y

How do I sound agenda-y?

@Napoleon

It feels like you are overhyping the reason for voting Apprentice but you haven’t studied his meta and I don’t think all his tells are warranting a strong scum lean

Also I don’t like your interaction with Arete still

@Alice

Village

Alice
Kyo
Drybones
Wazza

Wiisp
Arete
Italy
Marshal
Braixen

Katze
Napoleon
SDA

Jgoes
Appel
Sulit
Apprentice

Wolf

By the way, the people on the top are just wolves that she miscleared, but Arete is up there.

LHF Push

@Alice

I still want Apprentice dead.

His scumread on Arete felt disingenuous with how he couldn’t answer it from the get-go, he never follow up his read by questioning Arete or even with a vote, and his posting history has been completely narrow and one dimensional regarding his reads.

@Alice

/unvote

I seriously am not liking how everyone just converged onto Apprentice.

@Alice

We nearly maj’d App instantaneously.

He’s wolfy, but how the thread moved is indicating otherwise.

Quick change to another LHF wagon to make herself seem less agenda-y

@Alice

/vote Appel

---

And here’s what she’s doing here:

Pocket

@Alice

CRich tonally looks fine, so does Ami to a certain extent.

@Alice

Kinda of thinking Ami is >rand V from mix of tone and thread presence.

Shade

@Alice

…I still have no f’ing idea what Napoleon is doing.

@Alice

I don’t see his paranoia as genuine.

@Alice

Literally this.

I’m having a hard time buying the RT thing as genuine rn as it doesn’t really feel like you’ve done anything with it.

Plus, the pocketing read one me doesn’t really make sense when you TR’d CRich for the same damn reason.

I’d like to repeat that Alice has played with me multiple times and I find it hard to believe that she genuinely believes that I was pushing agenda with this “RT” thing. Plus not sure if she missed this or not but I posted these before she made that post

Posts

@Napoleon

Frankie - Yes, I was RTing them. The “!” wasn’t a legitimate read and their response felt genuine. I’m convinced that the “!” is part of their regular speech (though I pretended not to believe it) and their frustration seems genuine. I don’t think their posts actually pinged me as W.

@Napoleon

Typically there’s a difference between:

Being scumread as wolf for the wrong reasons
Being scumread as town for the wrong reasons.

I gutread Frankie, but typically I expected a wolf to be more hesitant on the validity of my reads on them. A wolf might think that my reasons for reading might be somewhat legitimate, but Frankie seemed to think it was outright stupid even to the extent of voting me.

Feels more like scumread as town for the wrong reasons.

Pocketing one I TR’ed CRich when I got more information than Alice initially did so that argument falls short.

---

I don’t want to make myself too subjective to conf!bias (maybe some things aren’t AI, but I do think a lot of it is), but I don’t think she did anything that is unfakable as a wolf here and I don’t think she has been warranted of a townlean knowing her skill. She did some shady things, which I tried to point out earlier, but no one followed up on it - which I’m assuming was because of my position on the thread as LHF and my OMGUS - but this slot deserves some pressure.

[Napoleon]

/vote Alice

[SirDerpsAlot]

Because you’re tucking with me

Lol

[SirDerpsAlot]

Also nap is town

[Napoleon]

hey alice

[Alice]

@Chloe

Honestly didn’t think about the fact that this could implicate me as the superpower.
I asked this question as a non-FoL form of “what groupscum do you think rolled? unseen or cult?” - like you would ask to the starting king - and was hoping for a concrete answer. Depending on what the superpower ends up being, it could be a bad look for him if he “guessed” correctly. His lack of response irked me, as it seemed like a cop-out. Hard to be held to it if you don’t give an actual answer

Needless to say, I’m fine with tracks or offensives on me. From my pov its kinda a waste of abils (especially if they’re limited in charges), but at least it’ll make you happier about my slot

It still feels kind of signal-y. Your response here was kind of good, tbh.

[Napoleon]

Did I wake you from the wolf’s den?

[Alice]

@Blizer

/vote SirDerpsAlot

this slot scum.

Why pressure on Derps when we already have a lot of content already?

[SirDerpsAlot]

Okay nappy I’m gonna say this now

Lolreactiontest

Anyways you’re town

[SirDerpsAlot]

LOL

Alice is a wolf

[Blizer]

RVS

want more content Alice

you can never have enough.

[Alice]

@ChopChop

I’ll say this now though.
I believe CRich to be Town based upon he said I feel odd then a few minutes later made a case on me.

I feel Scum!CRich would have just said I feel Odd and have done nothing about explaining themselves until questioned.

Yeah, Mode’s posts have gotten better.

[Napoleon]

@SirDerpsAlot

Okay nappy I’m gonna say this now

Lolreactiontest

Anyways you’re town

the horde thing was a RT too?

[SirDerpsAlot]

That was the rt yes

[Alice]

We literally had a huge argument between me/Chloe/Napoleon/Centuries.

What’s your take on those arguments?

[Napoleon]

lol alice is ignoring me

[Alice]

@Napoleon

Especially the “paranoia is genuine” one. She’s indirectly shading me because I said “Stop pocketing me” to CRich after he slight TL me. Instead of waiting for more of CRich’s reaction, she steps in here.

I’m not shading you. I’ve been one of the more vocal pushers on you. This isn’t shading, it’s just outright suspecting you for a good reason.

@Napoleon

Alone, I don’t think this could be inherently scummy, but either way it’s a misrepresentation of what happened.

What happened is:

Alice liked CRichard’s tone based off everything up to this post:

CRich got correctly scumread in SFoL 61.5 due to his first three posts. He isn’t a hard read by any means.

@Napoleon

By the way, Alice only starts to change her stance on me a little bit after this post.

I reconsidered since a while ago. Take a look where my vote was after you posted that message.

@Napoleon

I think it’s noteworthy though, that a wolf convincing another wolf to switch targets seems less likely. I don’t think this is a W/W interaction. Alice changed course after Centuries convinced her to, I feel like W/W, Alice would be more adamant to show a level of distancing.

But interactions aside, I don’t like how Alice only reconsiders after Centuries comes out to defend me.

This is a non-sensical preflip. You’re literally clearing Centuries just on the false pretense that I flip W.

@Napoleon

This is Alice admitting that my RT actually did something. BTW, her accusation is that I did an RT and did nothing with it, which is false.

Yes, roughly by the time you posted this you kept hiding and claiming your reads are secret. If you’re a villager stop fucking hiding your reads as there’s no damn reason to do it.

@Napoleon

This readlist feels a bit inconsistent. She began by saying that “Ami and CRich” are good and they ended up on the top of the readslist. This is why I suspect that it might be pocketing. Also, she hasn’t really done anything with the Centuries and Napoleon interaction and I think based on her posts the Nap/Centuries ranking is way too harsh to the point of inconsistency.

…what the actual fuck.

@Napoleon

Pocket

You’re literally claiming that all my TRs are pocketing without any good justification.

[Alice]

Your case is literally “Alice TRs Ami and CRich, so she must be pocketing.” alongside a dumb OMGUS.

[Blizer]

Felt like Chloe was pushing a bit too hard on Nap, and that if she look from both a town and wolf perspective, what Nap did was actually stupid as a wolf. Felt like she was pushing LHF with Nap.

Nap after his recent posts and everything with that interaction is town imo, i would be quite surprised if he flips Alliance here

Your not wrong on Centuries, their posts had a performative tone towards it, but i do agree with them on Chloe with her bad Nap push. overall im still ehh on Centuries, but their couple of posts improve (Similar to TBE from FoL 28). Want a bit more content to see their full thought process.

You, are still one of the harder people to read for me, but, from tone and perspective so far, you dont seem to be pushing agenda from my perspective, but i could be missing something

From Most Towny to Least Towny in this order:

Nap
Alice
Centuries
Chloe

[Alice]

@Blizer

Nap after his recent posts and everything with that interaction is town imo, i would be quite surprised if he flips Alliance here

Kind of would like a more in-depth reasoning.