[Suggestions] Give Sheriff Marshal's Snoop, make Paladin conversion immune

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

Sheriff’s a neat role for finding the bad guys. Not as useful as Observer (nothing is, IMO) but excels mid~late game.

Right now though the role feels really linear in what it can do at night, especially when compared to its Marshal counterpart. Sheriff only gets to investigate people whereas Marshall oddly has the useful Snoop skill. I think Snoop would be great for Sheriff to have as well as it’d let Sheriff’s do some fact checking, too. Rather than the linear Investigate: Unseen/Not Suspicious routine.

For Paladin, I don’t believe it makes sense at all for them to be convertible by the Cult. Paladin’s to me are devote and pure; firm believers in what they believe. Yet in ToL? — Easily brainwashed. Eh…

My suggestion for Paladin would be to make them immune to conversion and make them a role the Cult has to burn an Eradicate on to get rid of.

#2

Paladin and Sheriff were convert immune once. I like it to be able to convert your enemies.

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#3

I understand what you are saying, but sheriffs scout ability is good enough Imo, and snoop is good for unseen because you soft investigate people.

#4

I disagree, Mole. I think Scout is incredibly weak, and is just a filler day ability that catches an Unseen once in a blue moon.

The fact Scout cannot be used Day 1 really hurts the ability. The Mastermind has a high chance of a successful conversion, making any scouting attempts night 2 or night 3 very unlikely to hit.

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#5

Cult is already incredibly weak, grahite. Making Paladin unique would make it almost impossible for Cult to fake claim Paladin.

#6

I do agree scout should be usable Day 1. That being said, sheriff is fine as is IMO

2 Likes
#7

Yeah, he’s boring, but all right.

#8

Cult is weak?
Can u give as the statistics?

#9

I can present the reasoning. Would that be enough? We don’t currently have the statistics beyond anicdotes.

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#10

Basically the cult can only make progress in taking out the BD at night using the Cult leader. If you look at the Ability’s of the CL then you can figure that he effectively has a KPN of 1. ((2+1+2+1-1)/5 = 1) This number can be increased by a Ritualist by .5 per kill and also by letting you go longer without a sacrifice. But look at the unseen while the assassin is using 2 for 1 and nightshade over 5 nights. ((4+1+3+2+4)/5 = 2.8) That KPN is Insane and can be upped by a sellsword. That makes the unseen eliminate BD almost 3 times faster than the cult can. Remember that by N5 There would be only 2 non-unseen. In a cult game by N5 there would be 9. There is also the fact that in an unseen game the assassin and the MM (who is Occupy immune btw) would need to be stopped to halt Unseen progress. In a cult game however the prince can just jail the cult leader and the paladin’s and observers have all the time in the world to find the other cult. That’s not to say the cult has no advantages. If they didn’t then they wouldn’t ever win. For example the cult leader is always replaceable meaning that they are more consistent in the late game. The higher member count means that they can convert more and need less BD dead to control lynches. You may notice that I have almost only been talking about effective KPN. That is because those are really the only factors that matter. Everything else is secondary to that. This holds true for the BD except that they kill in the day and can target other BD. But because miss lynches are important I will go over that too. In the Cult you have only 1 class that can falsify info and that is the Apostle. There are only 3 chances to gain one and each has 2 chances to cause a miss lynch. That isn’t to say that you can’t cause a miss lynch a different class it’s just that your abilitys don’t help. In the unseen you have the Aristocrat, the Illusionist and the Herbalist. Between the 3 of these classes you can get 5 of them in one game. The difference is that theye can cause Chaos directly and the illusionist can do what the apostle does at night but indefinitely. These classes also have the ability to tamper with votes thus making up for having 1 less member. Now lastly I’m going to go over every BD class and see if they can act as thier old class when converted.

Butler U-yes C-yes
Drunk U-yes C-yes
Hunter U-no C-no
Knight U-no C-no
Sheriff/Paladin U-yes C-yes
Cort wizard U-yes C-no
Physician U-yes C-no
Mercenary U-yes C-no
Priest U-maby C-no
Princess U-yes C-no
Observer U-yes C-no
Illusionist U-yes C-no
Noble U-yes C-no

Did I forget anything?

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#11

Sorry about the text wall. There is alot to cover.

#12

blue dragon is weak at the moment due to noobism . more people on blue dragon. are likely to be noobs because there are more people on the team that can potentially be useless .

games I play tend to be 75 percent won by bad guys

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#13

Hopefully, the n00b ages will pass. Until then, sheriff might need a change of day abilities but paladin does not need to be convert immune.

Perhaps paladin could be convert immune when using smite?

#14

Paladin smite should do the effect on himself.

1 Like