The Heirophant (Neutral Special)

Class/Lore/Fanfic
#1

The Heirophant - Neutral Special class, whose purpose is to restore the balance and return to the old ways. Win condition: Survive to see only Neutral players alive in the end. If alive, game will not end with last BD or Cultseen dead, only with both eliminated.

Passive
The Heirophant recieves delayed death whenever he would be killed at night.

Day Ability 1:
Glory of the Ancients (1 use), ALL neutral players will be HEALED tonight.

Night Ability 1:
Find the Flock - Determine if a player is neutral. No other feedback given.

Night Ability 2
Voice of the Old Gods (1-2 uses) : Strip a player of all allegiances. The player will be informed of their new neutral status, but no one else will know. They retain all their normal abilities, but can now be affected by Glory of the Ancients, and can win with anyone a neutral can. This cannot effect the Prince, Mastermind, or Cult Leader.

Lore:
TODO

Comments:
Edit: This class is UNIQUE. Newly minted neutral players are given a win condition of Survive OR win alongside the Heirophant. Basically, if they live, they can win with cult or bd like an alch. If they die because they’re a high value target, they can still win, assuming the Heirophant leads the neuts to victory.

#2

How would this work with cultseen chat?

#3

Interesting…
First of all, you should probably add somewhere that this is unique… since it seems like the type to be unique.
Second, I feel like voice of the old gods should only work on BD, since unconverting Cultseen is kinda :eyes:
Third, due to the nature of it’s win condition, I feel like it should be able to have access to a KP once all cultseen and NK are out, and it’s only BD and some nuets left.

#4

Yeah, probably should have mentioned Unique, though I thought it’d be obvious. This is essentially Neutral’s MM/CL counterpart.

The newly neutral, say Invoker, will remain in night chat, and can even still win WITH the cult.

Because neuts are small in number, and also have their own win conditions for the most part, he has access to all but the main power classes. Being able to recruit amongst BD and evil gives the Heirophant access to killer allies, such as the assassin, the hunter, knights, technically even chrono. Certain abilities should change, for example, the knight can CS anyone and not suicide once neutral.

I generally feel like this class SHOULD be a bit more difficult to win with. If it showed up that not having personal access to killing power is a huge stumbling block, then that can be addressed.

Also, NK doesn’t need to be out. They win with the Heirophant, since they are neutral. It’s in the NK’s interests to keep him alive, as he can provide a clutch heal vs bleeds for a few of the NK’s. Reaper may need an added effect as incentive (maybe something like Reaper will not lose any souls that night, or will be refunded any souls used that day/night cycle).

#5

Question

Why should Neutrals suddenly be a faction (especially an uninformed minority)

Also giving said faction additional converts sounds… unideal. Consider that converted scum would have no reason not to instantly out their entire old team, and converted BD mean that they lose numbers way too quickly when you factor in main faction converts, main faction kills, and NK kills.

If you want this concept to fly, the only recourse I can see would be having it replace NK.

And even then, I’m not sure I see the appeal.

#6

I see no reason for Neutral’s not to occasionally be their own faction. Any evil converted will need to decide where they’re more likely to win. If they out their entire team, then bd instantly knows a Heirophant is in play, making life harder for the new neut to stay alive. They will likely be targeted by both sides at that point, especially if they’re a dangerous class. Given that the idea is that the Heirophant has only 1, or maybe 2 conversions at most, and that they can come from any faction limits the damage to bd there, imo. It’s certainly possible that they spawn instead of an NK, that’s what test servers are for.

Honestly, I am just wishing for ways to lower the amount of mechanical confirmation in the game, and creating a bit more uncertainty in games.
It’s fine if it’s not your cup of tea.

I feel like this also gives neuts more reason to actually play neuts instead of just hardsiding bd or waiting for a majority. In games with a Heirophant, neuts would be able to actively pursue a win on their own.

#7

therein lies the crux of my issue

I’d be much more interested in this as an NK replacement but I am still concerned that “sometimes neutrals randomly aren’t” could prove very challenging to make an element that isn’t frustrating

#8

There’s also the issue that if an Unseen convert gets “neutralized” (pun intended) but isn’t removed from the Unseen team, then Unseen cannot convert any more until either member is dead. If the neutral convert chooses to out from the Unseen team, the Unseen cannot kill the convert during the night - and if they can, they will know their convert was made neutral the night after.

The idea is certainly intriguing, but I cannot help but worry about the repercussions. And the win-rate of BD in these scenarios.

Also a Reaper can be healed if attacked without using Souls. They only use Souls if they die.