or just make it 66.5% Good king and 33.5% Evil king
66.666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666% Good king and the rest is Evil king
Yes, why don’t we just leave it like this, besides, it’s up to the devs what can happen and what won’t happen
Regrets: If the King is killed by a member of their own faction, then their faction will not be able to use any abilities, except Royal Blood, the following Day and Night. The new king will not be affected. Public execution is a Blue Dragon kill.
I don’t feel it’s necessary to punish the Unseen / Cult for assassinating / eradicating an evil king. Trying to attack the king at night is already a huge risk due to the likeliness that he will be protected, after all; I don’t think we need to add additional discouragement to that. The main thing we want to do is discourage randomly lynching the king when there’s no reason to think he’s evil (which could be a major problem with Allies removed, since the king will rarely be able to prove himself.)
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I feel like Royal Blood should always be there, just keep BD from using it the next night.
Because you cant tell if the king is evil - And the kings wont be outing ANYONE unless they are certain. Right now if you are alch and you dont claim to king n1, you are getting exed if the king sees you are neutral. This way is the same for neuts as before, but gives Unseen/Cult more room to claim.
So if your only problem with it is it hurts alchemists, its not really that bad right?
The point is that you can’t counter the words of the King, and the King is meant to be a great support and social leader, someone who organizes and rallies their faction, not the chief investigator.
3 Likes
Yeah. When the king finds an evil N1, they’re completely doomed. The king is impossible to fake, and while they could technically be evil, no evil king ever seems to make a fake accusation D2. This leads to boring gameplay because there’s less interaction and less room for deception or for trust to matter.
(Aside: Why don’t evil kings make fake accusations? Ask for leads, wait for whispers, then make a false accusation against someone who came up BD without explaining why. Logically if you’ve received some whispers, it seems like a reasonable strategy - the court won’t trust you after that, but there’s a bunch of reasons a king could make a mistake or be misled by someone, so they won’t generally execute you instantly, either. And realistically starting evil kings almost never survive to the end right now because people are so aggressive about lynching kings that fail to find evils - a few kings will bus an evil to save themselves, but I feel tricking the court into a mislynch is worth more. I suspect a careful evil king could get people to go for two mislynches before they’re caught, since people trust kings a huge amount right now.)
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Why not make King convertible? (joking)
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Regrets: If the King is killed by a member of their own faction, then their faction will not be able to use any abilities, except Royal Blood, the following Day and Night. The new king will not be affected. Public execution is a Blue Dragon kill.
How about instead of punishing, rewarding?
For example: If you exe an evil king, give 2 random BD 1 night immunity. If you exe a BD king, make cult leader/ mm non susp the next day.
The idea is to discourage BD from lynching the king when there’s not much evidence that he’s evil or simply to replace him with a noble (since currently a king will generally be executed D5 if he hasn’t produced any leads - and logically, on D3 most nobles are going to be unconverted, so it would make tactical sense for the BD to always lynch the king D2 if we removed Allies and didn’t add some other thing to discourage this.)
So BD shouldn’t get a reward for lynching an evil king. We want to make them less likely to blindly lynch kings, not more.
They shoud get reward because evil king= much much harder game.
Mmm. My feeling is that currently, the reason an evil king makes the game much harder is because it costs the BD the king’s Allies ability, which is a huge advantage. And the easiest way to deal with that is to just remove allies (which will make all games nearly as hard as the current evil king games.)
Of course, this might make the game too hard on BD in general (although I’m not too worried, since they have the highest winrate currently), but if that turns out to be the case, IMHO the best solution would be to distribute some buffs over various BD roles rather than having such a huge chunk of the BD’s power concentrated in Allies the way it is now (and therefore having it randomly be present or absent based on whether the king is good or evil.)
I suspect that with Allies removed, the difference between good and evil king games will be more slight. Evils don’t know the king is on their side, so it’s pretty rare for an evil king to live to the end (where their vote would be decisive) anyway. Without Allies, the main impact of an evil king might be one forced mislynch or the game dragging for BD as the king collects leads and sits on them (but that would risk eventually being obvious and getting them caught.) In practice, even evil kings often end up serving a bare minimum of help to the BD, since failing to do so gets them outed immediately. Allies is the real problem in terms of “swinginess” because an evil king can silently sit on their results or even use them to feed information to evils.
(Also, removing allies entirely does nerf evil kings slightly in that they no longer have an easy way to identify who’s on their side. Doing that was sort of the point of Allies… but I’m not sure it’s needed. Having it be extremely difficult for evil kings to identify and contact their allies is IMHO a good thing because it likewise evens out the difference for the starting king’s role a bit and forces people to work through trust, deduction, and trickery rather than being just handed information directly.)
6 Likes
Still much wrost then start with natural/bd king becaue you lose a day and an important day.
Even if they lower the king protection day it will still be stupid to lynch king before day4.
The all idea of this change is to change the current games: Bd king bd wins ~65%, evil king: evil wins ~65%