The King's Allies - They Gotta Go

Feedback/Suggestions
#1

I know that a while back, Allies was changed to the ability that enabled King to find Royal Blood classes. This was perfectly fine, as Allies, the most overpowered Investigative ability, just doesn’t fit the King and makes all early games almost the same (unless the starting King dies early and then things get interesting).

There were a lot of whiners, and Allies was brought back and edited.

But I think that Allies should go for the King to become a more Support and Social focused class who uses leads from others to make judgements.

There have been lots of us talking about this issue, and plenty of ideas that could replace this.

I think Private Matter is probably one of the best choices to give to the King. Make the Royal Finger as part of a Passive, or make it so that Private Matter becomes a Night-activate ability for the next day with a lot of uses. This would shift the starting King away from the Investigative-heavy position he has and turn him into the whispers and deduction champion that he’s meant to be.

I have here a possible idea for a reworked King.

(*) - Abilities only the Original King has

And if this does become the new King, then I think the Invoker’s Bewilder should be changed so that the King’s Passives and Abilities are disabled that day.

And to balance it out, I think the ratio at which type of King spawns should be changed, favoring a Good King spawning more.

Possible:
Good King: 66%
Evil King: 33%
Neutral King: 1%
Psycho King: 0% (Still Mad King)

4 Likes
#2

No support on removing allies

#3

I honestly fully support removing allies. It’s an annoying ability that kind of kills large portions of the game. Normal accusations, is it the scorned? is it the unseen trying to crush somoene etc…

when it’s the king, there’s not really any case to be made against him. You can try and deny his alignment, but that’s just silly, regardless of his alignment, he’s going for an evil execution for the first 3 days, it’s worth it to bus even if he is evil.

Normally it’s considered gamethrowing to not even try to defend yourself if you are accused… but if it’s the king, that’s kind of silly, king says you aren’t good… you are getting executed, defending yourself is just a wasted formaltiy.

I would say at the absolute bare minimum though, allies should at least lose the ability to find neutrals. It’s the ultimate slap in the face way to basically auto lose as NK or alc. (unseen and cult may be toast if he finds them with no chance to argue against it, but at least they have a side that can win afterwards)

5 Likes
#4

Allies is terrible. I’m glad there are suddenly more posts about this so the devs take notice and get rid of it once and for all.

7 Likes
#5

If allies is removed, put back the royal blood finder please and thank you

#6

“Forensics” - “shows the result of the last ability a BD player who died the previous night used”

King needs a ability that allows him to prove himself as good king. Otherwise he will just get executed every game no matter what side he is on. Giving him a useless ability will just make the class unbarably boring to play as well. Playing king is hard enough since everyone is constantly on your back.

I don’t think allies has to go. Evil king can get people executed with an allies claim as well. It’s a two-sided sword. And honestly before the last patch Unseen/cult and BD wins were roughly 50/50. I don’t think it needs changing. Sure, lucky check n1 or 2 is really bad for Unseen/cult but it is not that common and 3 checks arent that much. Early sheriff/pala kill or convert and you are ahead anyway.

1 Like
#7

I agree, but the ability where it only found royal blood was useless. Not a lot of classes have royal blood. Here’s another idea to fix it: Replace it with an ability that works similar to prince’s imprison, but for the day.(meaning that they will only be able to hear and speak to the king. They will not be able to be voted up or targeted by day abilities. They may not vote or use day abilities.)

#8

It sure killed MM Princess claims and other fake royal blood claims.
So if Billy the MM claims princesss and Bob the king royal blood checks him he is found “Billy is not of royal blood!” Then MM is hung. Also RB check wasn’t around long enough to get solid info on if it worked or not

2 Likes
#9

There are always other options for Ability’s:

Here is a list of idea’s:

Killing Ability like what Alch has
Parity Cop Ability
Link minds clone
Ally Ability that MAKES an ally
Simply making starting king usually good. That removes the need for the ability.
Better guards
Better finger
Knowing Prince to start (would also stop N1 prince deaths in meny games)
Day Ability tracker

#10

If King is Evil, and he knew Prince, that would cause so many issues, well, even if the King is Good or Neut, in my opinion

1 Like
#11

You left out my personal preffered one. Automatic and default “all whispers too and from the starting king are invisible”. IMO this makes the king a powerful “Leader” in the sense that investigatives can safely whisper him their leads, and the king can say “sheriff claim says he found unseen”. But that leaves him actually trickable by something other than a freak chance that he happened to have found the scorneds target or fool.

King should be the leader, the one who guides people into the better tactics etc…

King currently is Judge, jurry and executioner, in the sense that his investigative results are basically untouchable.

2 Likes
#12

Wait, you’re suggesting that be a passive?

#13

Well I didn’t list that cuz it was already said. That’s what private matters does

#14

Passive or limited use for first few days, it’s on the whole irrelevant, any king worth their salt is going to use it the first 3 days or so and anounce he’s using it. So it’s kind of a silly formality/newbie trap to make it a button they have to hit.

3 Likes
#15

I mean I wish it was built into the Tenacity passive too, then the King would have more room, for instance, setting Private Matters as a day ability, and giving a good night ability in place of Allies

#16

I disagree, hidden whispers on the king even as a limited ability would not be a good choice. The game is about social deduction, and being able to know who whispers the king is a huge part of it. Also, it would make it so evil king can freely whisper to evil roles without anyone noticing it.

As I suggested in a previous thread, I think they should replace the king’s “allies” with order or royal decree from the old noble, but with limited uses (maybe 4 like guard). And in case replacing allies ends up being too weak, they could buff the king by increasing the number of uses of “Decide Fate” to 2.

1 Like
#17

and? without allies the evil classes are either telegraphed to the point where the king does or dosn’t know if they are evil, or everyone else has a chance to know if they are evil by catching whatever the same clue the king used was. and/or vice versa as the evil roles also don’t have a king alignment tester.

#18

Yeap! I absolutely agree with the OP the Allies ability got to go. Its not a fun ability to use, nobody can argue against a king accusation and it makes the game more stale. Replace it with any fun ability that is not investigative and the game will be that much more fun.

From my experience the games where the king dies n1 or n2 are the most fun.

1 Like
#19

One thing that might be cool is giving the starting king the ability to anoint a successor, who auto-becomes the next king on their death (“you don’t vote for kings!” Votes only happen if there’s no successor.) They can change their successor every night, and it’s announced the next morning.

The chosen successor has to accept at the point when the king dies (otherwise the ability could be used offensively to change someone’s role against their will, which seems silly.)

I’m not sure how it would play, but it’s flavorful and would allow for at least some deduction - evil kings would be reluctant to appoint BD successors, say, so as soon as someone is confirmed it would become obvious that the king is dragging his heels on naming them successor.

And of course the successor would be a major target for conversion, but that’s what Paladins, Sheriffs, and Court Wizards are for.

#20

My thoughts, in short:

King

Allies is completely removed, never to return.

The starting King gains a social or support power, and the starting Good King gains a few things that the BD don’t want to lose to friendly fire. This should keep the King out of the central investigative role, but also prevent the staring King from being an instant kill from the BD.

Allies Replacement: All whispers to and from the starting King are silent.

BD Boon: Starting Good King’s guards protect against conversion as well as kills.

BD Punishment: If a Good King dies to public execution or Butler, the royal bloodline is useless and royals may not step up early.

These are all subject to change, and should be a big talking point. Investigative King is bad, it needs to go.