The Peace Keeper(remake) a class that defends neutrals

So yeah, no allcaps needed, friend. :slight_smile:

It wasn’t necessarily directed to you, though. It’s just that way too many people here want a pro-Neutral class that won’t get executed by openly claiming it to BD. This is impossible to work out as more often than not they will be required to help Sellswords, Fools, and Scorneds which by default go against BD’s goals. That, and if they are the last non-NK neutral or even the only Neutral that spawned then they are basically required to help the NK as their only wincon. Regardless of their kit, any pro-Neutral class is going to be classified as evil by default because in circumstances when a Merc/Inq/Alch die early or don’t spawn, then by default they will have to help evils or even the NK.

3 cult
1 Prince

Exe the fool.
Prince jails the CL and exe.
No trials
Prince jails the other cl and exe
Prince jails the last cl and exe

Attention to everyone, I have completely reworked this class again. Now the abilities are based around his new won con, which is to find a neutral and help them achieve their end goal. This makes him a bit more claimable so BD doesn’t kill on sight but also can still help NK win if he finds NK.

I still want to exe in sight

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generally I really like this! But I tried changing the win con so that he will be more under the radar from BD mostly claiming merc to them. This new rework forces the PK to find a neutral and help them achieve their goal instead of trying to have one survive to the end. Also this will work really well for BD, say if NK is dead and you have a confirmed alch/merc. The PK can out himself to the court without getting exe on sight.

Oh also really love this idea:

Unbreakable Peace (Night) - Visit a player. If they are Neutral, they will be healed and protected from negative effects. If they are not, they will be occupied. - Infinite uses.

… why’s that

Because it has no use to BD

sarun needs a picture.

Btw

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However the main issue that will make them prime targets for executions is that:
1.You’ll be spending much of the game trying to find neutrals, but half of the non-killing neutrals along with all the Neutral Killers are classified as evil and would be executed on sight, going against your wincon. This means that by default an open PK claim would have to lie in their logs and not out Fools, the Scorned, the Sellsword, or the NK. Any smart BD in turn would execute any player that is protecting evils on policy which would include any PK claim.
2.One of their wincons basically relies on giving the win to the NK if all other neutrals are dead. Keeping a class that has this wincon alive is just pure unadulterated stupidity as you’re basically giving the NK an additional vote for no damn good reason at all.
3.Even BD-aligned and true neutrals such as Mercenaries and Alchemists are periodically executed providing suspicion is drawn to them, and often times for good reason as scum often claims those classes from time to time. Unless you’re actively outing neutrals, which would go against your wincon, then people are going to call BS on your PK claim.

In short, yes, this class can help BD by giving immunity to BD-siding neutrals, but at the same time it’s far too scummy of a class for BD to let live to the point that in the majority of the games you’re better off executing them then leaving them alive.

If what you two are trying to do is creating a pro-Neutral class that BD won’t execute on sight upon claiming then it’s a hopeless endeavor. There are very few ways that a PK can help the Blue Dragon as a whole as it basically requires at least one Mercenary to spawn and be confirmed while the sheer amount of anti-BD Neutrals completely outweigh the benefits. Also.

And finally.

IF A CLASS HAS THE NK WINNING AS ITS WINCON THEN IT’S NOT A PRO-BD CLASS AND IT WILL BE EXECUTED ON SIGHT IF THEY OPENLY CLAIM THAT.

IF A CLASS HAS THE NK WINNING AS ITS WINCON THEN IT’S NOT A PRO-BD CLASS AND IT WILL BE EXECUTED ON SIGHT IF THEY OPENLY CLAIM THAT.

IF A CLASS HAS THE NK WINNING AS ITS WINCON THEN IT’S NOT A PRO-BD CLASS AND IT WILL BE EXECUTED ON SIGHT IF THEY OPENLY CLAIM THAT.

IF A CLASS HAS THE NK WINNING AS ITS WINCON THEN IT’S NOT A PRO-BD CLASS AND IT WILL BE EXECUTED ON SIGHT IF THEY OPENLY CLAIM THAT.

Aside from having to help evil neutrals like the Fool, Scorned, or Sellsword accomplish their goals, in the event that the PK is the only neutral that spawns or all neutrals die early, then he’ll be forced to side with the NK over BD.

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The only acceptable class that I would allow them to win with is alch

2 Likes

The Mercenary and the Inquisitor are also fine. The issue is that in order to maximize their chances of winning, the PK would have to be helping all neutrals at the same time to achieve their goals, which means that he’ll be trying to help Sellswords, trying to get a BD member lynched for the Scorned, waste the court’s nights by executing Fools, and vote with the NK if it comes down to that.

He can help true neutrals or even BD-aligned neutrals, the issue here is that nobody will know which neutrals will spawn except for the NK, which outright needs BD to lose for them to win. If a class has a wincon that explicitly requires BD to lose if all neutrals have died too early or if they were the only neutral to spawn, then there’s no way in hell to make this a BD-friendly class no matter how much OP tries.

I think a big misunderstanding here is people assuming this class can be claimed openly, like the Alch, Merc or Inquisitor, which seems to be the salient point of contention.

My proposal was not at all about that, since it was designed to allow for a fairly decent fake Butler claim. If the NK died, then you could, if you wanted, publicly claim PK and say the only neutrals left are BD-aligned, and then the odds of you getting executed would be low-ish (but not non-existent).

I don’t think a neutral class that defends other neutrals is something you should be able to publicly claim right at the start, precisely because there are a good number of neutrals that seek to harm BD in some way, and in some cases outright see them lose the game. If this class defends all neutrals, it by necessity cannot claim publicly unless NK is dead and all neutrals left are pro-BD.

The only way you can make a class like this publicly claimable is if instead of them defending all neutrals, they work like the old merc with contracts, and begin “aligned” with a pro-BD neutral (Inq, Alch, Merc) and can only re-align themselves to another neutral (including NK) if their starting neutral dies. This works in that it helps avoid BD killing neutrals, since doing so frees up the PK to align with NK, sellsword, fool, scorned, etc. This works backwards with evils, since they now have an incentive to kill the PK’s target (unless it’s alch) to try and get them to re-align with a more evil-aligned neutral. The problem is, of course, that it has the same issues as the old version of Merc.

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This got off topic very fast

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It’s done, we can go back to the Peace Keeper ideas. :stuck_out_tongue:

2 Likes

publicly claim PK and say the only neutrals left are BD-aligned, and then the odds of you getting executed would be low-ish

Though there would be no way for BD to certify your claim that all remaining neutrals lean towards them. And there’s also the fact that BD will almost always execute you if you claim a class and then swap to another claim halfway as you could be an evil fakeclaiming PK. The fact that this class is a neutral who will at times be required to go against BD’s wincon is enough for any BD to want to execute it regardless if the NK is alive or not.

It’s not a guaranteed execution to claim PK after the NK is dead, it’s just that it’s extremely risky to do this in a game where BD is highly distrustful of neutrals as this class would be far less trusted than Alchemists because of their uselessness to BD and that their wincon can even go against them.

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This is Alchemist tho. The Alchemist’s win condition can, at times, be directly against BD. It’s just that people don’t quite realise that because it’s not spelled out.

Is PK not as useful? Perhaps. But yeah, I wouldn’t recommend outing as PK in general. Sometimes it might work, but you gotta read the room.

3 Likes

Even if it helps BD or not how is the class in general

I don’t care if the class is against BD. To be honest It can be split most games he spawns anyways. Say the NK was killed early during some games. Then the PK can open claim if he wants or wait until a neutral is outed so they can team. It takes some strategy to know if the court will be in your favor or not. That’s what’s I like about this class.

All I want is these 4 question answered for is this class

  1. will this be a good class to play along with in the game?
  2. will you have fun playing this class?
  3. do you think this class is too overpowered or too underpowered?
  4. do you think this class will change the game in a positive or negative way?
2 Likes
  1. Yeah, I think so.
  2. Definitely!
  3. I would say slightly underpowered? Tough call. Seems reasonably balanced.
  4. It depends on the player. “Neuts Out” types will hate more Neutral classes to deal with, while pro-Neutral players will love it. Overall I’d say a pro-Neutral class would be a good addition to the game.
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will this be a good class to play along with in the game?

It is balanced and has a clear and concise flow, so yes, it would work.

will you have fun playing this class?

Personally I don’t enjoy playing old Merc-like classes, so likely not. This class works, it’s just that I dislike playing Support Neutrals in general.

do you think this class is too overpowered or too underpowered?

Quite fine. It may be a bit too easy to win if it pairs with the Merc or the Inq, but the issue is because those classes win too easily rather than being with this.

do you think this class will change the game in a positive or negative way?

Positive. The NKs need more love.

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