ToS Mafia - Day 8 - (3/19) [Town wins!]

[Arete]

@katze

we have 2 single posters and 2 nonposters i believe

which ones are you scumbuddies @Arete

zero posters at this point were Andrej and Diggity

oneposters were Uni and … I don’t actually remember the other one, Wazza maybe?

probably a maximum of 1 scum in that group based on this comment

[Italy]

If eevee is SK where are the escort/consort corpses

[clonedcheese]

well I would be dead then

[Possessed]

Why must I dig through 300+ posts of yours

[Possessed]

Why? I don’t think so. I don’t think NKA means much this night.

[Arete]

@clonedcheese

before I forget, why did you specifically target eevee in the hopes of him confirming you, rather than literally anyone else (like say someone not claiming TI)?

[Italy]

i don’t see anyone but witch teaming with SK, and marshal is most probable witch

[Arete]

Because Escort (and I think also Consort) die if they target the SK

[Jane]

Vote Count

Votee	Voted by	Votes
Arete	Marshal, Isaac_Gonzalez, clonedcheese, JakeTheWolfie	4/9
Marshal	Italy, Arete	2/9
eevee	Wazza, jmwjmw27	2/9
bepwei	Possessed	1/9
Currently abstaining players	sulit, Frostwolf103, PoisonedSquid, Anjic89, eevee, Universal, bepwei	7

[sulit]

Big Fat Katze Post (BFKP)

I am going to categorize all of their interactions by person.

Arete

@katze

upon reading 450 posts i thought i knew exactly what arete was softing and then they just claim something else

@katze

why is arete L-…5? I think?

why does arete have 5 votes

do i have to reread these posts again

@katze

@Arete theoretically, what scum class would you fakeclaim sheriff as

@katze

arete failed my science test but i don’t like how many votes they have already, less than 12 hours into a 72 hour day

@katze

you’re supposed to distance from me arete

what the heck didn’t you read anything i said in scumchat?

@katze

katze: claims mafia
arete: this is town

@katze

arete scum lol

@katze

arete confirmed knows my meta better than i know it :^)

@katze

i think arete is trying really hard to buddy with me

but i know how they play FM and their “katze is town because they’re not scared” read is absolutely something they’d say as town

@katze

if i had to lynch someone right this second it’d be an inactive or arete

but there’s like 60 hours left in this day and i’d like to solve aretes slot further, because one side of me thinks their posts “buddying” me are exactly how they’d present them as town but the other doesn’t like a lot of their other posts

i’d like to get a better solve on arete before the end of today at least

@katze

what is your read on arete, if i may ask

why do you think they’re town

@katze

…okay

i asked expecting an explanation but im not 100% dissatisfied with this answer actually

@katze

i don’t think that spews people as T personally

@katze

you brought it up first reee (but ok)

i tentatively agree with the conclusion at this moment

@katze

otherwise i recommend the converter to convert arete n2

@katze

also i claim masons with arete

/science

@katze

arete claimed sheriff a while ago

@katze

forum mods ban aret–

@katze

here you go

@katze

on one hand sheriff is an easy fake claim

on the other hand citizen exists and over a third of us are citizens

@katze

in the hotseat i don’t think scum!Arete would claim citizen for the sole reason that it gives town little incentive to stop the push, while sheriff is risking potentially our only TI

@katze

arete can you convince me in ~a paragraph that you’re town

@katze

there’s a tone here and i don’t think i like it

but it also kind of reminds me of how i felt in maf academy

@katze

arete please be town

@katze

the poll results have confirmed you to being lockscum

@katze

it’s unimportant to you my dear arete

you’re in my townpile this is a good thing

@katze

just look for the signs arete

there’s probably enough for you to figure it out if you need to

but i assure you it’s not worth the time :^)

@katze

i don’t get what marshals saying anymore either tbh

but arete is lock

@katze

we have 2 single posters and 2 nonposters i believe

which ones are you scumbuddies @Arete

@katze

im playing a game on my 2nd monitor so can you refresh me on your read

@katze

i either null or townread all of your townreads

@katze

alright marshal arete has done a wallpost they must be town

@katze

arete has a higher chance of flipping scum than marshal imo

but im not 100% convinced arete is todays lynch

@katze

Arete built autobahns

I rest my case

@katze

does scum!arete do posts like this often when they fear being lynched

@katze

and tomorrow night ill convert arete just to go full circle

@katze

whomst are you sorting

@katze

was personally gonna let the CD people read eachother for the first day or two

from reading their ISO i don’t know what to think, it looks like they’re trying to meta read you a lot

which to me isn’t really AI, although for darth specifically it may be (i wouldn’t know)

@katze

i don’t think i have a read on anyone below 50 posts (except universal because of that RT) but i haven’t put too much time into that yet

@katze

i can’t say ive been trying super hard to solve every slot yet

@katze

my gut is telling me arete is town for the sole fact that they’re playing exactly how i’d play in the “i’m probably going to die today” scenario as town (see mafia academy, where i was redchecked as town and wrote a wallpost in my first FM game ever which amounted to nothing because neutral fruit vendor )

while i’m pretty sure scum arete is capable of doing this exact thing, in a setup with no day flip altering (right???) it doesn’t make too much sense in my eyes

@katze

with that said i don’t think scum arete just flops over and lets themselves die

if i were a nerd i’d look at aretes past games and see how they act in this position

@katze

i think frost was referring to you, actually

arete goes by they/them

@katze

so basically how you’ve been being treated this entire day?

@katze

he fact that it’s been ~43 hours and we’ve basically only talked about 3 people having wolf equity (Marshal/Jake/Arete) and a vast majority of this time has been spent on arete is concerning though

are wolves happy with the threadstate? or have they given up on poor arete

@katze

well thats my point

if arete was mafia wouldn’t their buddies be doing ANYTHING to stop that?

@katze

i disagree

a mafia arete flip would make me think scum are inactive

@katze

they’ve been the main wagon for well over 24 hours

@katze

i could buy that if arete flipped as a “weaker” mafia class

but i really don’t think mafia is bussing arete on d1

it doesn’t make sense… which i guess could be why it’d happen? wifom? idk

@katze

i also like conversing with players before voting them if possible

it helps me get a read on them

talking to arete has convinced me that slot isn’t nearly as scummy as most people seem to think

@katze

@Marshal

convince me that im wrong and that arete is indeed not town

@katze

i’ve already documented my findings

why i think arete shouldn’t be todays lynch

katze:

my gut is telling me arete is town for the sole fact that they’re playing exactly how i’d play in the “i’m probably going to die today” scenario as town (see mafia academy, where i was redchecked as town and wrote a wallpost in my first FM game ever which amounted to nothing because neutral fruit vendor )

while i’m pretty sure scum arete is capable of doing this exact thing, in a setup with no day flip altering (right???) it doesn’t make too much sense in my eyes

katze:

with that said i don’t think scum arete just flops over and lets themselves die

katze:

the fact that it’s been ~43 hours and we’ve basically only talked about 3 people having wolf equity (Marshal/Jake/Arete) and a vast majority of this time has been spent on arete is concerning though

are wolves happy with the threadstate? or have they given up on poor arete

katze:

if arete was mafia wouldn’t their buddies be doing ANYTHING to stop that?

katze:

but i really don’t think mafia is bussing arete on d1

i initially talked to arete like a townread to see how i’d like their responses and i think that slot (while it still has some wolf equity) shouldn’t be todays lynch yet

but i’m welcome to hear the opposing viewpoint explained to me, because i do have some doubts

@katze

you think arete FPSed a sheriff claim as town?

@katze

i feel like the nature of their claim isn’t helping their case so if it was FPS they messed that up

@katze

in jakes case that’d be true, my TL on jake is mostly gut

but not in aretes case

@katze

i don’t understand this question so i’ll try to explain this

arete: townread at first, but after considering a few things, doubted myself into a townlean
jake: gut induced townlean, hence my post ending with

@katze

doubt made my read on arete a townlean from a townread

@katze

cause arete is town

@katze

you too, arete

there’s a reason im asking this

@katze

hmm

well

that didn’t change my opinion on arete

/unvote

@katze

i wasn’t thinking of a number

i wanted to see if they’d choose a “safe” option (eg 5 or 7)

but arete picked pi (nerd) and darth picked 2

silly reaction test but it was a theory i wanted to try

@katze

@Arete you’re at L-1 what is your defense

@katze

arete is town

carry on

Jake

@katze

why are you so sure on jake?

@katze

jake can you stop posting here and read what i said in scum chat for fucks sake

@katze

im confused. can you elaborate on that, jake?

i assume you mean that he isn’t giving much evidence to his reads?.. even though he’s made an ISO on arete?

not 100% sure but i feel like arete is his #1 read, can you confirm @Marshal

@katze

can’t really argue that he’s asserting himself on you two primarily, but at least he’s made a case on arete (whether you agree with it or not)

e h, i looked at your ISO earlier and don’t really think your wolf equity is insanely high though

@Marshal what’s your basis on your jake read? i don’t want to read between the lines, because i’m still mostly unfamiliar with his meta

@katze

what are you trying this game?

@katze

/vote Jake

that’s adorable

@katze

voted you to see how you’d react, because i was planning on unvoting for now

why are you so defensive when the messages we literally just exchanged here should indicate to you i don’t think you’re the scummiest person here

@katze

more specifically, it gains me more information than a simple unvote

@katze

i’ll be sure to never vote you again, sorry your highness

@katze

why is the entire scumteam buddying me

@katze

because i’m trying to get a read on you still

you’re going up and down my scumreading geiger counter, but i think this post has stopped the fluctuation

but it’s okay, i love you too

@katze

cause im trying to figure out how likely you are to be scum?

should i not try to solve your alignment?

JakeTheWolfie:

Why would you want to poison the well just that tiny bit if you think I’m any part town?

there is MAYBE a single person here who i can say with 100% certainty is town

@katze

then you don’t have to believe i’m town

from my perspective i’m solving your slot

is the method unorthodox? sure

is it working? i believe so

@katze

fair point, actually

i guess we’ll see how it pans out for me

@katze

/unvote

before i forget

i don’t think jake is todays lynch

@katze

vulgard jake iso coming later today

vulgard jake has died!

@katze

im still not sure what the case is on jake

@katze

jake im sorta leaning town at the moment but its not exactly a strong read

@katze

i don’t know how to read jake admittedly

it’s mostly gut but when i tested his reactions i felt like they were too angry to be scummy

but it is jake we’re talking about…

@katze

ehhhh

i think in context the quote isn’t that awful

@katze

so you’re either scum or a communist

@katze

okay, now what are the odds that jake is both a communist and scum

@katze

alright now claim the ToL equivalent of Knight (vig, i guess?) to properly emulate FoL24

@katze

i want to ask why jake has 3 votes but it’s jake

the ultimate form of LHF

but he’s probably town this time

@katze

in jakes case that’d be true, my TL on jake is mostly gut

but not in aretes case

@katze

jake: gut induced townlean, hence my post ending with

@katze

i don’t think doubt influenced my read on jake that much though, i think i better explained my read on jake somewhere

@katze

admittedly this falls under the ‘doubt’ argument too since i fully acknowledge that jakes reaction is probably NAI for him, but coming right after candlelight i don’t think he’d do the exact same thing as scum two games in a row

Possessed

@katze

possessed is in scum chat with me :^)

@katze

it’s okay there’s no conversion (right?)

@katze

…i don’t agree

there is a guaranteed 7 citizens out of 19 people here

@katze

i was referring to the 19 people in this game as “us”

but i see the logic

@katze

amen brother

Sulit

@katze

no problem sulit, always here to help

@katze

can i enter your box

@katze

that hurt

@katze

i feel like this entire box thing is a reaction test

results: none of us can handle being excluded from the box

@katze

i don’t see a world where sulit is scum unless they’re NE

the push on you, while awful, makes no sense from a mafia/NK perspective

@katze

why would mafia/NK do such an objectively poor push on day one

@katze

sulit

squid is town

squid

sulit is town

stop this bickering

this is dumb

@katze

im pretty sure sulit still scumreads me

like, very sure they do

@katze

this is sulits 4th to last post

notice where i am on this?

@katze

you think that sulit is bussing me and that we’re S/S?

@katze

i think the sulit wagon is bad and if it comes down to a potential rand between darth and sulit i’d be very unsure on which side i’d vote (i don’t plan on letting things go down to rand)

Wazza

@katze

why universal over wazza, specifically? or… whoever hasn’t posted yet. think there’s 1-2 of those still

is this based off of your experience with uni in the past cause i’ve only played with them once

@katze

if y’all start speaking spanish imma throw a fit

also wazzas readlist comes off to me as “pretending to be content”

is that just me

@katze

just thinking out loud and seeing if i’m crazy

i don’t really have any reads on wazza at the moment

@katze

can we settle down before this gets out of hand

@katze

as a fan of peaceful games, let’s not blow up on people

@katze

i think the only big difference from last VC is that wazza is voting darth and darth/SDA are voting wazza?

im not good at making charts so i won’t try

@katze

in sulits defense 2 of the other nonvoters also haven’t posted

and the other is one post over the person with the least posts

also in response to jake

@katze

im pretty sure sulit scumreads the shit out of me

@katze

it’s +EV to get you lynched yes

but it’s social suicide to push you the way sulit is as scum

sulits complete disregard for self image leads me to believe they’re precisely citizen or witch

@katze

i still don’t think i can be convinced that my read on sulit is wrong

@katze

TWTBAW to an extent

i’d elaborate further but my mental state is poor at the moment due to real life circumstances

@katze

/vote darth

i TR sulit way more than you

even if their claim feels really desperate

Marshal

@katze

marshal why did you roll exactly marshal

@katze

i hate that i agree with some of marshals reads

@katze

of the first three who do you think is most likely to be town

@katze

s till wanna see more, but im parking here for now

/vote Marshal

@katze

i can’t even say ‘shut up exe’ to marshal, huh?

@katze

also marshal since the case on arete is pretty clear, what about jake?

@katze

can we CFD to marshal just for this

@katze

marshal there’s a message i hid for you in the thread earlier

if you found it, you should know why im about to say this

arete town

@katze

im locktown

does that convince you?

@katze

marshal stop this advertisement

you’ve lost me

@katze

alright marshal arete has done a wallpost they must be town

how about your derps read

i don’t think i’ve ever had a good read on him in any game i’ve played with him so i just nullread him all the time

@katze

mountainous 13er

marshal pushes katze very hard

marshal and katze are both town (and yes, he does realize this and continue pushing cause science, but there’ was definitely quite a bit of pushing from a “katze is scum” mindset)

@katze

nothing marshal has done is AI for him imo

@katze

what is he doing thats scum AI for him

@katze

arete has a higher chance of flipping scum than marshal imo

but im not 100% convinced arete is todays lynch

@katze

@Marshal

convince me that im wrong and that arete is indeed not town

@katze

i’ve already documented my findings

why i think arete shouldn’t be todays lynch

katze:

my gut is telling me arete is town for the sole fact that they’re playing exactly how i’d play in the “i’m probably going to die today” scenario as town (see mafia academy, where i was redchecked as town and wrote a wallpost in my first FM game ever which amounted to nothing because neutral fruit vendor )

while i’m pretty sure scum arete is capable of doing this exact thing, in a setup with no day flip altering (right???) it doesn’t make too much sense in my eyes

katze:

with that said i don’t think scum arete just flops over and lets themselves die

katze:

the fact that it’s been ~43 hours and we’ve basically only talked about 3 people having wolf equity (Marshal/Jake/Arete) and a vast majority of this time has been spent on arete is concerning though

are wolves happy with the threadstate? or have they given up on poor arete

katze:

if arete was mafia wouldn’t their buddies be doing ANYTHING to stop that?

katze:

but i really don’t think mafia is bussing arete on d1

i initially talked to arete like a townread to see how i’d like their responses and i think that slot (while it still has some wolf equity) shouldn’t be todays lynch yet

but i’m welcome to hear the opposing viewpoint explained to me, because i do have some doubts

@katze

CFDing to marshal lynches a citizen

@katze

im like 99% sure they claimed citizen specifically

@katze

i seem to be mistaken

i was pretty sure they softed cit specifically but i can’t seem to find it, they called me a cit a few times and my mind rememberd marshal saying someone was cit

carry on

Derps

@katze

SDA i can never read

Frost

@katze

i think frost was referring to you, actually

arete goes by they/them

@katze

you think active mafia would let us lynch mafia d1 with no contest?

Squid

@katze

and frankly im disappointed that squid has outted their role so early

@katze

can’t you literally not die if you alert

@katze

you have the option to not die tonight

you just risk shooting a townie

if witch was dead you wouldn’t have that risk

@katze

or, it’d be significantly lower since townies know not to visit you*

@katze

i think squid hardclaiming a unique class this early would be very unwise to do as anything but that class

even if claiming it this early is very dangerous for her and moderately counterproductive

i find it hard to scumread her for it, though, just from playing with her in the past

@katze

i don’t get this

@katze

but why

does the claim feel not genuine to you?

@katze

i guess we’ll just agree to disagree on squid because i find it hard to believe they’re anything but their claim at the moment

@katze

i am intrigued on the squid tinfoil as well

@katze

i mean i don’t intend on ending the day without voting

but i see no issues keeping it on nobody at the moment. do you?

@katze

squid would be quite possibly the worst vote unless someone CCs her

even if she ends up being scum and there’s no real vet

@katze

i’m not saying squid shouldn’t vote because they’re an objectively awful lynch today

i’m just saying that there should really be no consideration on lynching her

@katze

in sulits defense 2 of the other nonvoters also haven’t posted

and the other is one post over the person with the least posts

also in response to jake

@katze

sulit

squid is town

squid

sulit is town

stop this bickering

this is dumb

@katze

i give up, have fun with sulit, squid

Tabor

@katze

okay ignore me i blame the fact that it’s 2:30 am i thought you were darth

@katze

so you want me to vote darth to see how other people react to the vote?

@katze

i’m due for sleep myself its 7am please help so ill park this here and see what happens when i wake up

/vote darth_tabor

@katze

i kept my vote on darth while i slept for science reasons and now they look to be entering full damage control mode

@katze

i initially voted you to see how you’d react and i wasn’t exactly a fan of your reaction

and at the moment i don’t see any better votes as the other wagons are much townier than you

@katze

just caught up

so darth is one of two roles if their claim is to be believed

@katze

i have a reason to doubt the claim due to the way they presented it, but that may just be due to the player

@katze

the thing is, you’re claiming a TS that isn’t medium

both which can be faked by mafia

the nature of the reveal makes me think you’re mafia with a consort or prankster

@katze

i said that about a few people but i don’t think darth was one of them

@katze

you’ve already made it clear you’re not medium

@katze

if darth is telling the truth then there is 2/3 RT slots filled and the third is likely filled by a citizen

@katze

yes

darths

@katze

part of me is willing to consider voting someone else for the sole fact that you’re kind of claiming mech confirmable

i’ll consider it by EoD, i shouldn’t be asleep by then (or a tiny bit before it)

@katze

amen brother

i kind of want darth dead but their claim is moderately confirmable (it’d at least prove them as not NK/Witch)

i think the sulit wagon is bad and if it comes down to a potential rand between darth and sulit i’d be very unsure on which side i’d vote (i don’t plan on letting things go down to rand)

@katze

lynching darth lynches mafia or TS

@katze

/vote darth

i TR sulit way more than you

even if their claim feels really desperate

Frostwolf103:

Anjic

@katze

his is the only post that might actually be content imo
and it’s not exactly much

Issac

@katze

diggity hasn’t posted in 71 and a half hours

Eevee

@katze

also it’s eevee we’re talking about

knowing them they’re probably a citizen

@katze

memes aside am i the only person who doesn’t scumread eevee

@katze

on why i don’t think eevee is scum?

it’s mostly gut but i’ll reread their ISO real quick and see if my opinion changes

@katze

skimming through eevees ISO nothing sticks out as being massively different from how they played in candlelight, for example

can you point some examples to the contrary?

@katze

i fail to see what your problem here is

i have a gut read that eevee is probably exactly a citizen and the way he’s playing supports that in my mind

@katze

i think eevee is town atm though

@katze

as for eevee, eevee is playing similarly to how i’ve seen them play in multiple other games

but reading eevee is odd

@katze

i’ll bite

why do you scumread me, eevee?

@katze

understandable have a nice day

@katze

i don’t necessarily play ‘aggressively’ on day one ever

@katze

i slightly disagree here since i’m verbally townreading top wagons

@katze

because you’re a player i find more difficult to read in most so i’m naturally not very confident in my reads on you

@katze

i don’t think i was being quiet about my opinions on arete

@katze

i have little confidence in my early game reads because i have little confident in myself as a player

which… i could explain but it’d probably come off as self-meta and ATE

@katze

because having doubts in someone being absolutely 100% town on day 1 is… scummy?

you think i’m scummy because i’m town leaning people and not town reading , because the way i present myself?

@katze

townlean is the conclusion

more specifically, i started off townreading arete before having some doubt, and thinking of possibilities of their actions being scum motivated

so the doubt lowers the TR to a TL, and seeps its way into my posting because i like to explain my thought process if i can

@katze

doubt made my read on arete a townlean from a townread

i don’t think doubt influenced my read on jake that much though, i think i better explained my read on jake somewhere

@katze

eevee is a strong player but their push on me is logical and isn’t sudden (they’ve been shading me a while) so unless i was picked to be a mafia mislynch from the very start of the (in game) day then i don’t see eevee being mafia

@katze

@JakeTheWolfie

read eevees push on me

i don’t think that’s a scum motivated push

Italy

Nothing

Universal

@katze

why universal over wazza, specifically? or… whoever hasn’t posted yet. think there’s 1-2 of those still

is this based off of your experience with uni in the past cause i’ve only played with them once

@katze

uni you’re at L-1 defend yourself

@katze

yeah you’re acutally L-0

boom bye scum

/vote Universal

@katze

/unvote Universal

points at the cameras

it was a prank bro

Bepwei

@katze

it does seem quite hedgey (i think thats the word) especially the read on bep

cheese

@katze

no opinion on cheese

@katze

you are cheese

brain please catch up

@katze

i don’t think the “but” should be there either since the “although” exists myself

but i don’t know if i’ve ever considered using sentence structure as a scumhunting tool

jmw

@katze

i think one of the mafias can emulate transporter as well, but that’s unique so riskier

@katze

i hate reading slankers so no opinion there, but we have a decent number of them and i doubt they’re all town

@katze

can you explain your reads on the CD people

you know em better than i

[Italy]

unrelated but so does jailor if they don’t execute the SK that night

[clonedcheese]

as of yesterday he was the most clear VT to me
I am still under the impression of a FPS

[sulit]

Anyone can use this. I haven’t done any actual analysis, I just categorized the posts.

[Possessed]

Wait. Cloned wasn’t doing a Reaction Test? That literally changes everything.

[sulit]

(Now my brain is tired, so I’ll look at them later.)

[clonedcheese]

Hi I may or may not be smart enough to think of a RT

[Arete]

@Arete

can you get anything from Possessed’s wife’s Iso

I’ve re-read it and I haven’t gotten anything AI out of it

@Anjic89

That Marshall person said something about ancestry being his favorite dating site and when you think ancestor you think family and who’s a notorious family? the mafia

this is the only post that might actually be content imo
and it’s not exactly much

not really seeing anything AI in this interaction

[Italy]

can we kill marshal instead of arete since marshal is basically confirmed scum and arete isn’t

[Arete]

@sulit

I also get bad vibes from Universal

@katze

why universal over wazza, specifically? or… whoever hasn’t posted yet. think there’s 1-2 of those still

is this based off of your experience with uni in the past cause i’ve only played with them once

this is not a super great look for Uni and a slightly better look for Wazza

[PoisonedSquid]

Has it been four hours yet?